Lighting question: 250W MH, heard people say the right combo can beat a 400w rig?

[Osteomata]

I just can't seem to find the info now, but Im sure I have seen some people on this forum talk about a certain 250W MH combo that was as good as most 400W set ups. So fill in the blank for me:
The ________ bulb, powered by a _______ ballast, set in a _______ refelctor, will match many 400W MH rigs.

Or am I chasing a non-existant holy grail?

 

[ReefWreak]

10kXM with almost any ballast, LAIII or other quality reflector.

That setup will beat most 15-20k setups, just don't get the same colors...

http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm for PAR info on 250w bulbs on different ballasts.

I personally have had fantastic luck with 10kXM on CoralVue ballasts, spider reflectors. Now I'm running 14k hamiltons with same setup, and the colors look the same as the 10k with all my VHOs on, so I would always rather opt for 10kXMs if I can afford them next time my bulbs break.

 

[gasman059]

NO 250 WILL EVER BEAT A 400 20k setup LOLOLOLOLOLOL

J/K to each its own-20k IMO is truly the most color friendly light combo.

 

[Osteomata]

Mooooorrrrreeeee info needed gasman. What does that mean, "the most color friendly"? does that mean simply that you really like the color appearance? You don't mind the loss of PAR? Do you run them w/o supplemental actinics? I'm open to suggestions here. What about 250 20Ks?

 

[gasman059]

I run xm's 20 x3 400 with actinic supps(PC) I just truly like the colors of my critters. ANd yes I don't mind slowing down my acros b/c of the kelvins.

IMO acros really shine and show themselves under 20 bulbs wheter they r 250 or 400.

 

[ReefWreak]

You'll loose a lot of PAR when you go to 20k. I'm totally making this up off the top of my head, but lets VERY roughly guesstimate that a 10k 250w halide setup has more PAR than a 20k 400w. a 10k 400w has more PAR than a 20k 1kw halide. You lose PAR when you go to the higher color temps, across the board. Just look at the chart on the page linked above.

You get much better coloration with 20k, however you lose the PAR that corals use to grow, and generally speaking you lose bulb life as well (the higher color temp bulbs shift spectrum faster).

20k on any bulb looks great, 10k on any bulb will get great growth. It's just kinda how it works. The reasons for having 400w over 250w are so you can have more light in deeper tanks, or to use a higher degree kelvin bulb where the PAR lost is made up for by providing more PAR than the lower wattage bulb would output, if that makes sense.

There are WAAAAY too many ways to skin a cat/light your tank in this hobby, even when you only stick with one technology (MH, T5, etc)....

 

[Osteomata]

That is a nice synopsis ReefWreak, and I disagree with none of it. However, there are certain things that can signifcantly improve efficiency, yes? I seem to remember hearing RAVE reviews about Luminarc reflectors, but perhaps this was only for the light spread, which will not be so important in my 18" wide tank. I seem to also recall hearing rave reviews about a certain bulb/ballast combo, I think it PFO was involved, perhaps Phoenix. Not sure. Anyway, Im still lookin for info and recommendations.

 

[MediaHound]

I heard good things about the Phoenix, have some on order...

 

[ReefWreak]

BTW here is a great resource on info for reflector differences:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/feature.htm

Thanks again Sanjay!

Anyway, a clean reflector/protecting glass are a must with any reflector, more reflective surface is important as well. Those are general to any reflector.

I've heard Phoenix thrown around alot, however I'm not a believer in 14k anymore, and they're 14k (or in that range) bulbs if I remember correctly, so I'm not a fan, but if you've got no actinic supplements, then it is definitely something to consider.

As I said before but more specifically, my 2x250w 10k XMs with 4x110w URI SuperActinic VHO actinics looked like what my 14k Hamiltons look like now with the VHOs off. If I flip the VHOs on, I don't notice a color change, just an intensity change (even though the VHOs are well over 2 years old now and are there just for color).

 

[jman77]

A good 10k 250 will put out more par than a 400w 20k, and my 6500k 150w puts out more par than most 250w 14 k DE bulbs.... to each his own, but i'm going 250w P14's or ReefLux 10k's on my new tank

 

[ReefWreak]

I'm going to have to see/try out the 10k reefluxes before I'm a believer, but I've got high hopes, as I've heard tons of great feedback of them, however I havn't seen any PAR numbers though. I wish JBNY would update his page (I'm still SOOO thankful for it even though it hasn't been updated much!).

 

[nyvp]

It comes down to this for me. I prefer not to run actinics(see below why) so went up from 250w to 400w so i could just run my 4 bulbs in my LumIII's
a 250w xm 10k on a pfo hqi is 182 par
a 400w xm 20k on a pfo hqi is 98 par or 128 on a m58 ballast
a 400w radium 20k on a pfo hqi is 146


again this is for my tank because its a 3 sided tank would need 4 4's on each side for a total of 8x59 (80w watts overdriven) = 640 watts and so I wouldnt see lines when your looking down the long end I would need 4- 36" at 39w (55w overdriven) in the middle so 4x55watt is 200 watts for a total of 840 watts plus the 4- 250's = 374w x 4 = 1496w plus actinics = 2336watts or in vho's would be 4 - 4' footers and 4 - 36" would come out to 2296w vs my 4-400w radiums at 1884w ( 471w each) plus an extra $1500 in costs for the t5. AGAIN this is my tank that needs twice the actinics then most because I have 3 sides. That's why I went with the 400w radiums they have the highest par next to the helios ( helios was more wattage and only a few point more par).

 

[ReefWreak]

Joe, where did you get your PAR figures? What distance were those taken at? I'm just wondering because the PARs listed on Joe B.'s site were so much higher. Are yours at the bottom of your tank full of water?

 

[MediaHound]

Well they say the Phoenix are 10K but resemble a 14K to the human eye. So that would be a bulb good for growth and still makes the corals pop with color.

 

[ReefWreak]

I wonder what the PAR figures are for it?

 

[Flamehawk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10614875#post10614875 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MediaHound
Well they say the Phoenix are 10K but resemble a 14K to the human eye. So that would be a bulb good for growth and still makes the corals pop with color.

Have to respectfully disagree. Phoneix DOESNT look like a 10K bulb to me. Definately capable of being ran without actinics, which is what i do.

JOHNNY

 

[MediaHound]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10615061#post10615061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flamehawk
Have to respectfully disagree. Phoneix DOESNT look like a 10K bulb to me. Definately capable of being ran without actinics, which is what i do.

JOHNNY

I think you misread the post.
I didn't say that, but I think we're on the same page!

 

[Flamehawk]

Got it.

 

[nyvp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10614585#post10614585 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefWreak
Joe, where did you get your PAR figures? What distance were those taken at? I'm just wondering because the PARs listed on Joe B.'s site were so much higher. Are yours at the bottom of your tank full of water?

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/selectperformancedata.php

sanjay's site is where I took those #'s from

 

[Von_Rahvin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10613745#post10613745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefWreak
You'll loose a lot of PAR when you go to 20k.

this post has it nailed on the head. The right spectrum for coral growth if i remember my reeding is 6k to 8k. problem is that this color is too yellow for most people. It all depends on what you want out of your tank.

(take this with a grain of salt, it's been a year or 2 since i did my heavy bulb spectrum reading)