Long post - please help me out with my sps problems

[LobsterOfJustice]

Hello everyone,

Long story short: I am having issues with my sps. I am scared to buy new corals because I do not want to lose them. Some of my corals are slowly lightening up, losing tissue, browning out, and/or losing polyp extension. I know that the more information I provide the better, so I will try to provide all the information I can (It might be too much...)

75g tank
30g sump, 30g fuge (the cheato doesnt grow)
DIY beckett skimmer, pulling a few cups of tea a week
mag 7 return, 6 Maxijets on wave timers (Tunzes on the way)
Two 250w 10K XM, Two 110w VHO Actinic
12 hour photoperiod for actinic, 8 hr for halide
All bulbs are less than a year old

Fish (all doing well):
Majestic angel (I know what your thinking... but I am 100% it isnt him)
Mimic Lemonpeel Tang
Two small gobies
Mandarin
Solarensis Wrasse
Male Lyretail Anthias
Two Ocellaris Clowns

I started dosing Kalk about 6 weeks ago, but it is having a hard time keeping up. I am looking into a Ca Reactor
Ca - 370
Alk - 8.3
Nitrate - about 1 (this is the highest it has ever been)
Mg - 1200
pH - 8.28
Temp - 80.0

The same thing has been happening over and over: one coral will lose some tissue and/or bleach, and after it dies or stops, another will start. Here is what is happening with all my corals (you dont have to read it all, but I figured I would put it here in case it helps):

Green Mille - A few weeks ago it lost PE and color, began to bleach. I moved it lower in the tank, it slowly recovered. Moved it back and it is doing well.
Orange Digitata - Lost tissue a few weeks ago in the middle - made a turnaround after a water change. Good color and growth.
Tricolor Nana - Slowly losing color (over the last few weeks). Almost to the point where I would call it bleached now. Had good growth but slowed down.
Chesterfieldensis - Great color and polyp extension, no growth.
Purple Mille - Great PE, color, good growth.
Poccilipora - satisfactory growth, lost tissue in the middle but recovered (I didnt do anything).
Purple Cap - great color, good growth
Superman Monti - lost tissue when introduced to tank, good color, slowly growing
Blue Tort - Excellent growth, good PE, browning out a tad bit
Green table - good growth, losing color (becoming lighter). It is tan now.
Samoenosis - Very dark brown (used to be tan, then green). Slow growth, okay PE
Birdsnest - lost tissue at base, recovered, slow growth, good PE and color
Frogspawn - good everything
Tricolor Cerealis - browned out, now lightening up (getting bleached tips).
Rainbow monti - good PE, alright color, no growth
Orange Tip Mille - Brown, no PE at all, no growth. Looks like the skin is getting sucked into the bone.
Blue Mille - Same as above, with just a tad of PE.
Unknown Green Acro - GREAT growth, color and PE
Tricolor (Unknown Sp) lightening up, losing PE, okay growth
Favia - losing tissue around the edges since I got it last feb. down to a few polyps
Platygyra brain - lost tissue on top
plana - slow growth, good color and PE
Tan cap - Good PE and growth
Green purple rim cap - browned out real bad, then got real light, then began slowly losing tissue. only 1/8 of what i originally had left.

Lost: kimbeecis, red cap, yellow cap, elkhorn, unknown SPS, spongides... probably a few more too

Most of the corals are from the same 3 places (2 of which are other hobbiests).

I am really stumped because AFAIK my water is okay, lights should be fine (Ca a tad low but not enough to kill stuff)... and some corals are doing great while others are dieing.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it was long... all help apprecieated.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Cabt tell you what is wrong but in your situation I would add carbon. Increase water changes using well aged water and consider using straight Calcium chloride to get the calcium up. I would also look for damage from some kind of parasite . Maybe more thatn one type as your nanas and caps are suffering. Try dipping one of the affected corals in a solution of about 7 drops lugals in a quart of water. Swish it around real good and see if you have planaria. They also tend to cause the nanas to get real blotchy see the planaria threads for pictures. Often the nanas will loose some tissue and then recover if it is planaria. The planaria are very widespread and if you dont quarantine there is a good chance you may have them. Dont forget the water changes though. How old is the tank?

 

[PUGroyale]

I may be way off here but based on what you're describing... Id check the NH3. I'm going thru a similar issue, couldn't figure what it was, all levels good... checked the ammonia and it was @ .25ppm. Can't explain why I had NH3 all the sudden but my corals were reacting just like yours. hth [hope im wrong too ]

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I do 20g waterchanges about every two weeks. The tank has been setup for about 16 months... all the corals I have had for under a year. I have a pretty crappy ammonia test kit... but I will use it and test the tank later. I will try the dip too.

Thanks guys.

 

[orion76]

I'd recommend a 7 gallon water change once a week instead. 30% water changes may cause repeated stress if temp, ph etc. are very different than your tank's values.

Do you test for Phosphates?

Your Mg and Ca are a little low but I doubt this is causing your problems.

Make sure you maintain steady levels, SPS don't like frequent temp swings etc.

Use carbon if you don't already in case the cause is due to some pollutant.

What light do your coral sources use and do you acclimate new specimens to your lights? Those 10K XM's are be bright, especially if they come from tanks with 20K bulbs


HTH

 

[CeeGee]

I have a pretty crappy ammonia test kit

Shouldn't matter as long as it is accurate enough to let you know whether there is any ammonia or not. No amount of ammonia is good big or small. It needs to be dealt with if it is present.

 

[ReefRockerLive]

Usually SPS brown out due to lack of light, high phosphates, high nutrients.

What coral food do you feed? If it's cyclop-eeze, you should cut down on it because I noticed that it is pretty easy to overfeed it.

Like orion76 says, do the 7g water change a week. It will cause less tank perameter fluctuations.

Run carbon once a week and be sure to swap it out often.

Getting a CaRx asap will really help you out alot.

Good Luck

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I am running carbon in a phosban reactor. As far as lighting acclimation goes, if the coral comes from a tank with less light then mine I sit it on the bottom of the tank for a few days, then mount it. I dont feed the corals or test for phosphates.

I will start doing the small more frequent w/c.

 

[ReefRockerLive]

Since you don't test for phosphates, chances are that brown-outs are due to the high phosphates. I'd recommend the Salifert Test kit since it is the most accurate kit available.

Sometimes corals brown out then die because of the lack of food. I feed a small amount of Cyclop-eeze and Oyster Eggs and the results are great.

 

[ReefWaters]

I think orion76 has some very good points to look at. I'll comment on a few.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6406293#post6406293 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orion76
Do you test for Phosphates?

Your Mg and Ca are a little low but I doubt this is causing your problems.

Make sure you maintain steady levels, SPS don't like frequent temp swings etc.

What light do your coral sources use and do you acclimate new specimens to your lights? Those 10K XM's are be bright, especially if they come from tanks with 20K bulbs
HTH

See what the phosphates say. For that matter, test everything you can afford a test for. It doesn't hurt to know.

I think your Mg and Ca is too low. My tank always looks happier when BOTH my Ca and Alk are not only higher, but STEADY.

On that note, STEADY levels are absolutely essential in my opinion. SPS hate swings of any kind. I would invest in the CA reactor. It was the best piece of equipment I have purchased yet.

Do you have an auto top of system? I highly suggest this as well. Small daily swings in your salinity can cause problems. How are you testing your salinity? If your not already using a refractometer, they are as low as $20 bucks now at Marine Depot. I highly suggest this little piece of testing equipment.

A temp controller is nice but I have been okay without one for a year and half. I do have one on the way though if that tells you anything.

On the light. You have a good set up but if your corals have been under anything but 10K XMs, the color will change. There is nothing you can do about that and that is not a health problem, just a personal opinion on what looks better for each person. In fact, all corals will color up a little differently under all combinations of lamp.

But you have lost tissue and whole corals. That is a problem.

I think you are headed in the right direction on many things. The Tunzes will make a big difference I think. I think you don't have much flow at all. What are the specifics of what your setting up with the Tunzes? Are you using a controller, what model number, how many, etc.?

Test for all your parameters. Check for flat worms. Get ALL your parameters in line and steady with the help of CA reactor and an auto top off system. Do all this and a little more, stay on top of it, and give it some time, and you should start seeing some really good growth.

PS, I think you have a lot of fish for that tank too. But that is just my opinion.

Good luck and keep us posted.

ReefWaters
____________________________________________________

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Alright, just tested ammonia - 0. I will get a phosphate test kit and test asap. For topoff, I have a tunze osmolator pumping kalk. I use a refractometer and salinity is steady at 1.025. I have a multicontroller for the Tunzes (got it for my birthday) and ordered two Tunze 6000 a few days ago... they should be in later this week.

I did the dip. After putting 7 drops in a quart of water it looked pretty weak, esp considering the lugols bottle says use something like 40 drops per gallon as a dip. I dipped and "swooshed" the tricolor cerealis (which I dont think is a cerealis, just FYI) in 14 drops of lugols mixed with a quart of tank water. There was some stuff in the water - but I dont know if any of it was bad. I dont really know what to look for. There was some detrius, slime, "dust". I then put the cerealis back in the tank, added 7 more drops to the water, and dipped the dying cap. The water got really cloudy with detrius and a little algae. Some small bristlyworms came off, and a few pods. Again, I dont really know what to look for... seems to me a small clear worm could look a lot like slime. I chose to dip those two because they were doing poorly and on removeable plugs - I did not dip the nana because it is encrusted, but I can dip it tomorrow if anyone thinks it's important.

I also have looked on a few other threads about magnesium - it seems mine is acceptable but a little on the low side. I added the suggested amount of B-Ionic (1.5 ml/gal), which is supposed to raise the mag by 15 ppm/day. I think I will do this for a few more days - good idea?

Thank you to all who have helped so far!

 

[orion76]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6407220#post6407220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
I am running carbon in a phosban reactor.

I prefer a more passive way of using carbon in a filter bag in the sump. Forcing flow through carbon in a reactor can be stressful to your corals each time you change it out.

 

[MiddletonMark]

It's an odd question, but what salt do you use?
How do you prepare water changes?

You only dose Kalk? Add any other suppliment?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I use a 50-50 mix of IO and Oceanic. I was dosing the ALK part of randy's 2 part and doing water changes but then when I started to get more corals that wasnt enough to keep Ca up. This is why I started using kalk. Now I am using kalk and occasionally randy's alk mix but I dont have any of his Ca mix.

For water changes I have a brute trash can that I fill with water, then add the appropriate amount of Oceanic salt, then IO, then put the lid on and let it mix for at least a week, adjusting SG to 1.025.

I thought running carbon in a reactor was good? Maybe if I test and have phosphates I will start using phosban in the reactor instead and run the carbon in my sump.

 

[orion76]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6411240#post6411240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
I thought running carbon in a reactor was good?

You will hear different opinions on this issue. Mine is that this method is too agressive. In tanks where the water has some yellowing when the carbon is exhausted the replacing of carbon could cause photoburn when the water clears up too fast, among other things.

JMO, others will tell you they use carbon in a reactor w/o problems If you do run carbon in a reactor I'd use a smaller amount, replace it more often and use a slow pump.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Came home today and the orange tip millepora had RTN'd. This was a surprise because although it looked like crap and I knew it was on it's way out, it had looked like this for at least a month.

Tested Mg and it was 1230... I am adding a little more today because I figure it shouldnt hurt.

 

[MiddletonMark]

What does your new salt water test at in terms of
Ca
Alk
Mag
pH?

How old are these corals [in your tank]?

 

[PITSTOP]

Too much light.

I cut my metal halides down to 5 hours per day, coral colored up like never before.

Barebottom? Get rid of your sand, up the flow significantly.

Buy a decent calcium reactor - my personal recommendation is the GEO with a through the lid pH controller (American Pinpoint).

How much evaporation do you have? I evaporate 3 gallons per day on my 120 gallon SPS.

I clean out my sump every 2 months - actually disassemble it, scrape it clean with vinegar and a razor blade.

Take out your rocks and scrub them clean with a rough scrubber, dunk them in a bucket of seawater until they are completely clean.

* I recommend these measures because i was where you are now about a year ago - slowly dying corals - different story today!

 

[PITSTOP]

Few more things...

- I do not dose supplements

- I wet skim like you would not believe, frequently I wet skim 5 quarts of tan skimmate per day, approx. 20 quarts of skimmate per week on average.

- all my trace elements come from regular water changes using RO/DI and Tropic Marin salt, and my GEO 612 calcium reactor.

- I drip Kalkwasser probably once every week and a half.

- I run carbon and phosban in 2 separate phosban reactors.

- I am looking into either UV or Ozone or both

Good luck!

 

[ReefWaters]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6415023#post6415023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PITSTOP
Take out your rocks and scrub them clean with a rough scrubber, dunk them in a bucket of seawater until they are completely clean.

What are you suggesting that this will do for him? What effect do you think this will have on the tank?