Looking to Breed an Odd Pair of clowns

Reefing Newbie

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So about a month back I got a pair of true percs thinking of only getting them for show in the tank and not planning on raising fry. Well now that my tank is shut down due to ick I have planned a little bit deeper into what my plans were for fish and corals. I got to thinking that I want to try and raise at least one batch of clown fry, but I don't want the plain jane babies. A black and white occelaris has to be one of them as they have become my favorite clowns. Now I am looking for a clown that I could pair with it for some interesting looking babies. I thought of maybe doing a regular true perc and see how that turns out, not sure what designer name they have or if they are commercially produced. Also thought of a regular ocellaris, thus getting mocha clowns. I would love suggestions, preferably a new or newer hybrid clown would be great. My budget doen't allow for the high end snowflakes, picassos, or clowns that cost more than maybe $100 which I saw as the price for a Rod's Onyx at my lfs yesterday.
 
That would be interesting, but I am not sure if it is possible for them to breed together because the are of different genus'. If it is possible I would do it though maybe someone knows.
 
I have read where ora had some mystery fry that they suspected where hybrid maroon occs. Getting them to get along is the challenge I see.
 
Yeah that is what I would worry about. That may be out of my ability for right now. Do you know if the black Ocellaris is comercially bred with regular percs? If not I kinda want to try it. If they are what are they called?
 
I guess maroons can breed with ocellaris clowns. I would like to know how they can get a pairing like that with the maroons being so aggressive?
 
i think the only possible way, is a big mature female ocellaris and a juvi maroon. she will dominate him, but hopefully not kill him. but i would keep it in the same genus.
 
I was thinking that. Although the maroon and black ocellaris would make a very interesting pair and very cool babies. I will try that one out later. I kinda like the picasso clowns, wonder what the babies would look like if I bred one with a black ocellaris?
 
I thought black ice clowns were the black and white ocellaris and snowflakes mixed together. The hybrid figure is something to consider.
 
I think it would be amazing to get the black ice clowns to be black instead of orange. I think mixing a black ocellaris and a picasso would result in more black. I don't know what to choose yet, so many different clowns to mix. I thought of maybe skunks, tomatoes, or clarkii clowns, but not sure how the aggression would work out. I could also think of this at mixing the black ocellaris with the picasso and getting traits set in, after the point where all the fry are the same, then I could mix in a third species. That would be pretty cool! I could try a snow onyx with a black ocellaris, but the snow onyx is $250. I am not willing to spend that much on a fish. Not on this tank at least.
 
I highly suggest you start with one single species first to get your feet wet. While on the surface breeding clownfish may seem simple, you will kill many many many fry in the process - and hopefully not your parents. You are still very new to the reefing hobby, and while I applaud the ambition, there are a few things in the last post that raised some concerns for me.

First, do more research on the current state of the industry in regards to clownfish morphs and hybrids. Know the LARGE difference between morphs and hybrids, what it implies, and how the genitics can work for or against you. For example, an onyx and black/white are both mostly black fish, but offspring from them can/will be considerably different.

Second, don't think this will be a money making deal. It will take you a long time, lots of hours, and more failure than not raising your first few fish. I say that only because many want to raise clowns trying to earn extra cash. You have to have the passion for it besides $$ to actually be successfull. Dollars can make motiviations weak in when returns are not quick. It can also cause otherwise good breeders to take shortcuts and create sub-par quality fish.

You should get very familiar with genetics of fish, and how traits are passed on. You statement of "agetting traits set in, after the point where all the fry are the same..." This doesn't happen unless you are working with a pure species, and even then it doesn't always happen. If you and your wife had 30 kids, would they all be the same? no. Pure species will have a higher percentage of like offspring, and designer morphs/hybrids much less so. Research the background behind Bill Addison and C-Quest onyx. This will give you insight into what I'm referring to.

Something I already mentioned - hybrids. This is a HUGE can of worms. Some are VERY VERY sensitive to anyone knowingly creating hybrids. There was a recent CORAL article which pointed out some very common freshwater fish, and the attrocities on how they got there (gold fish with tumurous foreheads, bubbles under their eyes, shortened bodies, etc). Some people think clownfish are disappearing in the wild and it's up to us to save them, and hybridization ruins this chance. My own biased opinion is that some hybrids are OK as long as they are very knowningly sold as such, and the buyer recognizes they do not have a pure species. I think single hybrids are very interesting, and besides their beauty, can help us understand the genetics of clownfish better. However, taking a hybrid and making a secondary hybrid out of it I just don't think I could support. You would have created a true mutt clownfish. This streatches even my own creative view of cross breeding a bit to the extreme. I'm actually quite surprised more of the other highly hybrid-conservative haven't jumped on this yet - but be prepared for this to happen if you do proceed with this plan.

While my post is a bit of a debbie-downer, by all means research, research, research. Thinking outside of the box is always great, but knowing the ramifications to your ideas is also critical (growing a thick skin to the critisism is also key). Ask lots of questions, and find a pair of Ocellaris or Percs to start playing with. Chad (TCMAS) had a pair for sale just last week. I think once you get going your eyes will be opened to this whole aspect of breeding.

Last thought: I've noticed that about as soon as you think you have a good idea for the "next designer clownfish", ORA comes out with it the next quarter :)
 
I highly suggest you start with one single species first to get your feet wet.

Not trying to be a contrarian here.. But I totally disagree.. Clownfish are about the easiest fish to keep.. With proper husbandry (wish is pretty easy IMO) There is no reason for broodstock to die..

I personally do not see any moral dilemma with having some failures raising the fry.. When I first started breeding I wish more people told me how easy it really was and encouraged me to go after it..

Go after it! LOL.. And try to beat ORA to the next name game.. After all, Doni did it, and she has been selling $200+ pairs for a couple of years now..
 
I agree with you disagreeing :)

I guess I mostly meant single-species pairs (and a single common pair, especially since the OP is cost conscious). Not trying to do a maroon x pink skunk as your first pair. Trying something too wild initially might just lead to a lot of hair pulling! Same goes for fry dying. Not morally wrong, but very frustrating!

What did you think of his two-tiered hybrid idea?
 
I think its cool.. Why not.. I mean if you want to make any money.. I mean just a simple ROI, (no one will make any profit unless you have a huge facility..) You better get to to making a new designer morph.. I have no problem with hybrids or designers etc..

If you are gonna breed I say get after it and go big.. You never know how long it takes a pair (especially if you are doing something unorthodox like hybrids) to breed. So I think getting multiple pairs is a good idea..

But agreed.. If the OP is going to try some crazy stuff... It might just end up being a long frustrating expensive hobby.... But, it could also be really interesting and exciting..
 
That coral article really struck a nerve with me.. but that is another argument.. It was just someones opinion, no facts.. One I completely disagree with.. But that is another argument in another thread.. :)
 
It struck a cord in me too (nearly the entire issue actually). I used it as a reference for one extreme side.

I guess there's more than one way to go about things. I like to start slow and build up, but there's something to be said about going for broke!
 
So you agreed or disagreed with the author? just curious.. maybe it is worth starting a thread to see who read it and what peoples views are..
 
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