Looking to start stocking my 65g

[NickRummy]

Looking for some opinions here. I have a 65g (36w x 18d x 24h) tank with a 20g sump. I'm not dead set on certain corals but do definitely want a decent variety of fish.

The tank has been up for a week and half and was started with live rock from an established tank. Had a small ammonia spike of .25 or so but that only lasted a day or two. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate have all read 0 for the last 4 days. Still planning on waiting a couple more days before doing a PWC and adding fish.

Right now there is an Emerald crab, a few small snails, brittle star, xenia, mushroom, and some anthelia that were all hitch hikers on the LR, all doing great.

Here's a list of what I'd like to keep in the tank when it comes to fish and Inverts. What would you change and why? What would you add when? I'm thinking of adding a pair of young Clowns or the yellow watchman, some hermits and a couple snails first. What snails would you recommend? The pair of young clowns and the watchman together would probably be excessive?

Fish

2 - Tank Bred Ocellaris clown or True Percs (Undecided, would like them to host)
2 - Kauderns cardinal fish
1 - Dwarf Flame Angelfish (some people seem to not have issues in reefs?)
1 - Yellow Watchman Goby
2 - Zebra Barred Dartfish
1 - Red Mandarin (I know this would be far in the future if at all)
1 - Six line wrasse (I read these can sometimes be aggressive?)

Cleaning Crew

2 - Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
1 - Emerald Crab
1 - Brittle Star
4 - Dwarf Hermit crab
4 - Snails (Recommendation?)
1 - Pistol Shrimp (maybe a tiger, is there a chance they could pair with the Goby if introduced at different times?)

 

[small alien]

I'd go with a more peaceful wrasse even though sixlines are very cool and pretty. IF you do the sixline, add it last. And maybe skip the dartfish if you do the sixline. If you do the dartfish, maybe do three, looks cooler and that's the way they're usually sold on DD.

A mix of nasarius, astrea and cerith snails is good. Starting with 2 of each would be good. You can always add more. I'd go with scarlet hermits as they seem to be the most peaceful. I think if your pistol is in first, you've got a fair shot at successfully pairing it with a goby later. But maybe just wait until you can add them both. I'd skip the brittle star unless you're super into them. Can be a bit of a threat to your fish population. The rest of your clean up crew should suffice.

Sounds like a cool tank. Good luck.

 

[NickRummy]

I'd rather have the six line than the dart fish so I'll probably rethink that.

Why are all the Brittle stars I see locally small? I see on Live Aquaria they can get to 10"?

 

[Angel*Fish]

Don't put a 6 line in with a mandarin. They are notorious for eating off the mandarin's eyes. Angels need well established live rock. I would wait about about 6 months depending on your rock.

Personally, I wouldn't add any crabs to my tank (other than filter feeders). I don't trust crabs. I'd be wondering if they weren't going after tiny crustaceans or even worms that help make your tank healthy. I know others have different opinions, but I never keep any crabs in my tank and aside from some issue at start up, they were all free of nuisance algae.

You need to do research before buying any sort of brittle star. Make sure you obtain something you can feed and something that will not go after your fish. Some are very beneficial others are terrors.

 

[NickRummy]

Don't put a 6 line in with a mandarin. They are notorious for eating off the mandarin's eyes. Angels need well established live rock. I would wait about about 6 months depending on your rock.

Thank you for the heads up on the Wrasse/Mandarin!

Personally, I wouldn't add any crabs to my tank (other than filter feeders). I don't trust crabs. I'd be wondering if they weren't going after tiny crustaceans or even worms that help make your tank healthy. I know others have different opinions, but I never keep any crabs in my tank and aside from some issue at start up, they were all free of nuisance algae.

Not even dwarf hermits?

You need to do research before buying any sort of brittle star. Make sure you obtain something you can feed and something that will not go after your fish. Some are very beneficial others are terrors.

That's exactly why I'm here and posting this thread. I know that some of the fish I like are questionable in certain tanks or with certain tank mates. That's why I'm trying to learn about.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Not even dwarf hermits?



That's exactly why I'm here and posting this thread. I know that some of the fish I like are questionable in certain tanks or with certain tank mates. That's why I'm trying to learn about.

You're welcome! You'll find posts that say "I've had a mandarin and a 6 line for a year, no problems" But if you search, you'll find enough accounts of their killing mandarins to see it's a bad idea. Besides, they compete for pods (which is likely why the 6 lines do what they do).

I'm not an expert on crabs - but I don't trust them. I'm not willing to give them a chance. To me the infauna, microfauna and anything that doesn't include are too precious for my tank's stability to risk it. If you see a crab go after any meat, then they are bad in my opinion. Some are supposedly only vegetarians, but if you've got no algae, aren't they going to start going after pods? Maybe someone who knows more about them can comment.

I know that you're posting to research what you should put in your tank. I was just thinking that this brittle star issue may not get covered to the extent you need on this type of thread. If it were me, I'd do RC searches and also start a new specific thread. Now that I've said that, someone will probably pop in and give you a whole dissertation on ophiuroids. lol

 

[NickRummy]

I wouldn't complain about that

The Brittle star and Emerald crab were both hitch hikers on the LR I got to start the tank..... So they're in the tank right now ever since it's been up and running. I'll have to do some more searching on both of them.

I've searched RF for each thing I'm considering putting in the tank which is why I thought it was a pretty decent stock list. I just wanted a good final check and to get some suggestions on when things should be added.

 

[snorvich]

Good advice from Marie above. I too do not trust crabs.

 

[Angel*Fish]

^^^ Thank you! ^^^

Overall your list looks good to me, I don't know about combining cardinals -I assume you mean a mated pair? I assume you know that they are nocturnal and just hang in the water in one spot all day. For me they don't make a great display, but I know others love them. I would choose a Chysiptera hemicyanea which can pair in your tank also. But if you get one, make sure you do not confuse it with another damsel as many damsels can be tank terrors. The common name is azure damsel and they are nice fish as long as you have plenty of rockwork in your tank.

I think in general most people's experience with shrimp gobies and shrimp is that it doesn't matter when you add them, you can usually count on their finding each other. Word of warning - I'd get the smallest possible species of shrimp - mine had a habit of throwing sand on the front of the tank about 3 inches high.

I assume you'd want to try a BTA first time out as your anemone (?) (assuming proper tank requirements). Of course this is not the natural host of ocellaris/perc clowns. Some say they will eventually take to the anemone, but I was afraid to trust that happening so I put them all together in a 10g. After a couple of days, they were still ignoring it so I put a barrier in to force the clowns closer to the nem. Soon they accepted it as a host and I moved them all to the main tank. Whether or not this was overkill I don't know, but I was determined to have them bond with that anemone because to me clowns just hanging in the tank looks kind of like they lack a purpose or something. lol

 

[jpsnaps]

My Ocellaris clowns didn't host anything for the first couple months I had them. I added a RBT in hopes that they would host it. Of course it wasn't until I added it to the tank that they decide to host the frogspawn. Occasionally I see one of them go over to the torch for a while.

^ I agree with the comments about hermits. I quit keeping hermits after waking up to my blue dwarf hermits dining on snail every so morning until I had no more snails. I tried adding extra shells, but that didn't stop them... may have slowed them down. Plus they stole food from coral.

I have 2 skunk cleaner shrimp and they're neat to watch, but also have a problem stealing food from coral. Still like them, but they don't seem to live that long. My last one just died this year.. I had it for over a year.. maybe a year and a half. Got my 2 recent ones small in hopes that I have them longer.

Brittlestar - I have a maroon striped seaserpent. It doesn't seem to bother any of the fish and I occasionally target feed it mysis and pellets. I think its the yellow brittlestars that have the reputation of eating fish.

As for the sixline, add it last. I finally added a sixline to my tank and he's great.

 

[NickRummy]

Ok guys, digging up this thread again as I'm looking to add a new tank mate.

Here's what's in the Display tank right now.

2 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
1 Emerald Crab
3 Brittle Star (these are the small black and grey ones, maybe 2" in diameter including legs, all hitchikers)
6 Dwarf Blue Hermit crabs
3 Dwarf Red Hermit crabs
1 Trochus Snail
1 Red Common Starfish
3 Nassarius Snails
1 Sand Conch

I added the yellow watchman saturday and man did that excite the clowns! It almost made me feel bad..... They've always stayed in one spot of the tank around their cave. Even when feeding they won't venture out to eat in the open. They like to stick to their spot. I've been working with them and have them on a tight feeding schedule so they'll eat from my hands now when I come home from work but again, only near their spot.

Anyways, I put the YWG in there saturday and they were all over the tank! They wanted to check him out and seemed so happy to have another fish in there. Is this normal? He didn't really want anything to do with them. He ended up settling in on the sand bed on the other side of the tank from their cave and they hardly ever see each other now.

I'm looking for a couple more reef friendly fish to add to the tank that will bring a little color and movement.

The LHS has a couple dart fish and dotty backs that look pretty neat. They have a coral Beauty that looks awesome too. They had a few Wrasse's but I can't remember which ones.

I REALLY want a flame angle but I've been told to add them last because of aggressiveness. I really like coral Beauties as well. Can a Coral Beauty and Flame Angle be in a 65g together? Is it a pretty high chance of coral nipping?

I'm ok playing it safe and just getting a couple dottybacks or a couple firefish or something. If I go this route are there any I should stay away from? Can I mix and match or keep the same type? How many of each would keep them happy since someone mentioned 2-3 as a group is best.

Thanks!

 

[Toddrtrex]

Do you have a back up plan if the angels don't get along? I have multiple dwarfs in my 58, one of them being a coral beauty -- it is the mellow leader of the tank. One thing that has helped me is using an acclimation box -- lets the fish get used to each other, and will give you an idea if it is going to work or not. When I added my multicolored dwarf to the tank I left it in the box for a full 7 days.

 

[NickRummy]

Do you have a back up plan if the angels don't get along? I have multiple dwarfs in my 58, one of them being a coral beauty -- it is the mellow leader of the tank. One thing that has helped me is using an acclimation box -- lets the fish get used to each other, and will give you an idea if it is going to work or not. When I added my multicolored dwarf to the tank I left it in the box for a full 7 days.

The only back up plan I'll have is to give away one if they don't get along. I do/will have a separate tank setup to house one if need be but wouldn't be a permanent solution. Just something setup for an emergency.

What procedure did you use exactly for acclimating the dwarfs? How large was the acclimation box?

 

[Angel*Fish]

Exactly. And there's more to it than just buying the fish and using the acclimation box. It also helps to have a tank packed full of established LR that's been in there at least 6 months. A CB/flame combo is not my first choice of angels to combine together. I'm not saying it won't work, but I seem to hear more failure stories with those two fish.

Anyway, you have to be ready to tear down your tank to get one out if they don't get along. Angels are among the hardest to fish catch.

But since you're not going to add angels for at least 6 mo, you havr plenty of time to research it

Did you say play it safe with a couple of dotty backs? That would be a mated pair of fridmani's right? I think they eat worms...not sure. You can't just get a group of firefish and assume they'll get along. Mated pairs can be aquired however.

 

[chimmike]

get rid of the emerald, get more trochus. You need more snails than that as a cleanup crew.
As others said, don't get a sixline. It'll compete with the mandarin for food and it gets way too aggressive, especially in a small tank.

 

[NickRummy]

Exactly. And there's more to it than just buying the fish and using the acclimation box. It also helps to have a tank packed full of established LR that's been in there at least 6 months. A CB/flame combo is not my first choice of angels to combine together. I'm not saying it won't work, but I seem to hear more failure stories with those two fish.

Anyway, you have to be ready to tear down your tank to get one out if they don't get along. Angels are among the hardest to fish catch.

But since you're not going to add angels for at least 6 mo, you havr plenty of time to research it

Did you say play it safe with a couple of dotty backs? That would be a mated pair of fridmani's right? I think they eat worms...not sure. You can't just get a group of firefish and assume they'll get along. Mated pairs can be aquired however.

Understood. I have no problem waiting on the Angels if that's the best thing to do. The tank has been up and running for a month and was started with live rock from a friend's tank that's been running for a year. I have no problem letting it get more established before adding an angel. I'm not heart broken if it's not a good idea to keep a CB and Flame together either. That's why I'm asking now instead of standing at the LFS with my wallet ready

Same goes for the questions and opinions I'm looking for on the other fish. Someone mentioned earlier about doing 3 dart fish. That's why I brought up doing "a couple fish". I wasn't sure if 3 was a good idea and if they'd get a long or not. Just looking for some suggestions on some peaceful fish that might add some color and activity to the tank.

 

[NickRummy]

get rid of the emerald, get more trochus. You need more snails than that as a cleanup crew.
As others said, don't get a sixline. It'll compete with the mandarin for food and it gets way too aggressive, especially in a small tank.

Why no emerald? He's one of my wife's favorites haha

As for the snails. I thought I had too many already! How many is a good number for a 65g?

 

[Angel*Fish]

Understood. I have no problem waiting on the Angels if that's the best thing to do. The tank has been up and running for a month and was started with live rock from a friend's tank that's been running for a year. I have no problem letting it get more established before adding an angel. I'm not heart broken if it's not a good idea to keep a CB and Flame together either. That's why I'm asking now instead of standing at the LFS with my wallet ready

Same goes for the questions and opinions I'm looking for on the other fish. Someone mentioned earlier about doing 3 dart fish. That's why I brought up doing "a couple fish". I wasn't sure if 3 was a good idea and if they'd get a long or not. Just looking for some suggestions on some peaceful fish that might add some color and activity to the tank.

Sorry, sometimes I get all snarky. If you have live rock that's been in somebody's tank for a year, then I don't think you need to wait so long, but give it some time to make sure you're stable. (i'm thinking 3 mo) Angels spend their day grazing the rock and staying near it so they can dart for cover. The more loosely stacked rock with crevices big enough for them to swim through, the better. They aren't interested in a lot of free swimming like tangs apparently are.

I think a firefish pair would make a very nice display if you can find one. Dotty backs are usually unpleasantly aggressive except for the little purple fridmani's which I believe can be obtained in pairs as they are tank bred here http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/tr_fish.html

 

[NickRummy]

No need to apologize. No offense taken

I think a firefish pair might be a good option. Since they must be a pair is there a way to tell at the LFS between male and female? Also, you can only had one pair of dartfish in the tank since they can become territorial amongst their own kind?

I really like the zebra barred dartfish which should be ok if I skip the wrasse right? I'd like a mandarin at some point so as suggested above I'd hate for the wrasse to pick on either of them.

 

[chimmike]

Why no emerald? He's one of my wife's favorites haha

As for the snails. I thought I had too many already! How many is a good number for a 65g?

The emerald will eventually eat your corals, one way or another. I've seen it too often. Some LFS' will swear they're reef safe. But I once had a LFS tell me arrow crabs are reef safe too. Found that one out the hard way as well.

As for snails, for a 65g, I'd say 3 of the big mexican turbos. 3-4 nassarius. A fighting conch, and a bunch of trochus, probably 10-15.

Maybe 10 blue leg hermits, too.