Low Alk Low Calc High Magnesium !!! - Need Advise

[asonitez]

So I have a reef that was doing AWESOME. All of a sudden over the course of a few weeks notably after a 30 gallon water change using my normal Instant Ocean Salt I started seeing a RAPID decline of my SPS. First They seemed to loose color noticeably and then they seemed to slowly. 1 Milli in particular started to get WHITE on the TOP facing the light while remaining red.


1st I thought It was LIGHTING since I had just changed over to brand new XM20K's and also added 2 EcoXotic Stunner Strips. I cut the lighting down to only 4 hours a day (halides) - All day T5's and EcXotics. This did not seem to do much.


I took a look at my fish stock and realized that in over 200 gallons of water volume I really only had 5 fish.

2 Chromis
1 Marine Betta
1 Flameback Angel
1 Jawfish


I have 3 yellow tangs and 5 Kupang Damesls in qurantine atm which should help with my fish situation.


Frustrated I did a battery of tests last night.
Temp - 77
Phos - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Calcium - 380
Alkilinity - 7
Magnesium - 1580

Looking at my journal I realized that the last time I did a battery of tests September 4th my Calcium was obver 480 and my Alk was 7.3. My SPS has declined since then.


Are my fading corals being caused by Low Alk and Calcium, lighting , or Lack of Fish POO POO!

150 Xh Display Tank
Sfligoi XR4 II 2x 250w SE Halides w/ XM20K bulbs
4X ATI Blue+ 54w
2X EcoXotic Magenta+Blue Stunner Strips

40 Gal Sump w/ Live Rock
28 Gal Frag Tang Tied in w/ chaeto under the racks (Frag Tank corals are ALSO having the same issue)

 

[stingythingy45]

So,what are you dosing?
Regular I.O. doesn't have enough Ca. or Alk to sustain a reef tank.

*Honestly,I'm surprised your Mg. is that high with I.O.(could that test be off?)

You want I.O. "Reef Crystal"instead of regular I.O. as well.

 

[stingythingy45]

BTW,fish poo....poop causes SPS to grow more slowly and lose color.
Nitrates are no good.

 

[asonitez]

My Mag is high because I dosed Kent TechM to kill off some bryopsis with my cleanup crew so Its been slowly coming down.

problem is I was dosing 2 ESV 2 Part about 50ML's a day but I ran out at the beginning of september /end of august... I haven't been dosing but I've been doing my water changes. I've been so lax in setting up my calcium reactor thats just sitting there in all 500 dollars of glory.

Last night I mixed up some reefbuilder for ALK and some Kent Turbo Calcium and dosed about 2 hrs apart. I'll keep dosing over the week to bring it all back up and get the calcium reactor online tonight.

I understand IO does not have have the levels necessary to support a reef but dammit its the ONLY SALT I have NEVER HAD a problem with. Sure I dose a little higher but its damned well stable compared to other brands INCLUDING reefcrystals which i've had issues with before. I tend to stick with what I know.

I did NOT expect my tank to consume those nutrients at such an alarming rate. I seriously underestimate the size of my corals which many would consider a colony and I think of them like frags having grown them from frags lol.

 

[stingythingy45]

At one point when I was dosing 2 part ESV.
I was up to 200 ml a day.
I went to topping off with kalkwasser.And I'm using Istant Ocean Reef Crystals with now issues.

 

[sirreal63]

IO does have everything you need, but of course you will have to supplement to keep your levels consistent.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I would suspect the problem is more of an issue with letting the parameters get too out of whack than a problem in salt. IO is probably the most used salt ever, and works just fine with a sps dominant reef.

 

[asonitez]

IO does have everything you need, but of course you will have to supplement to keep your levels consistent.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I would suspect the problem is more of an issue with letting the parameters get too out of whack than a problem in salt. IO is probably the most used salt ever, and works just fine with a sps dominant reef.

Thats what I have always been told. I wonder what to expect when I start raising parameters. I'm trying to staunch the bleeding before anything else.. You think raising dKH to 9/10 by friday spread out bi daily dosing is too Fast?

 

[sirreal63]

That should be fine as would a series of smaller water changes, 30 gallons at once may have been an issue as well. It is always hard to get an accurate diagnosis when these things happen, but I have corrected more issues with water changes over the years than anything else.

 

[asonitez]

That should be fine as would a series of smaller water changes, 30 gallons at once may have been an issue as well. It is always hard to get an accurate diagnosis when these things happen, but I have corrected more issues with water changes over the years than anything else.

Well i figure setting up a Drip would work.. I guess I might need to invest in some kalk to add to my top off water. Raising my ALK will raise my PH if im not mistaken. or can I use Vinegar to counteract the raise in PH?

 

[sirreal63]

It can raise the PH but only temporarily until the CO2 in the house brings it back down to equilibrium. I would not worry about the PH.

 

[stingythingy45]

IO does have everything you need, but of course you will have to supplement to keep your levels consistent.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I would suspect the problem is more of an issue with letting the parameters get too out of whack than a problem in salt. IO is probably the most used salt ever, and works just fine with a sps dominant reef.

And respectively, you would be quite wrong.
Regular I.O. does not have the calcium or especially magnesium that high enough out of the box for a reef aquarium.Although it does work for a FO tank.

 

[sirreal63]

400, 11, 1350 is just fine and maintaining a reef at those levels is also fine. If you choose to believe that those levels are not adequate, that is ok, but to say it is wrong is a little silly. This is one of many examples of over the top tanks using IO. Argue with him if you wish to, but that would also be silly.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2023909

 

[dvanacker]

IO works for me

To the OP....I dont think your parameters are that bad as long as you are not experiencing wild swings. Get your parameters in check but also investigate other possibilities.

 

[asonitez]

IO works for me
To the OP....I dont think your parameters are that bad as long as you are not experiencing wild swings. Get your parameters in check but also investigate other possibilities.

Beautiful tank.. I must admit that other than the BIG 3 (ALK CALC MAG) and the normal stuff, I can't say I don't know what else to check.

No current leaks beause my equip no shocks and grounded, no nutrient issue that I can detect other than what i posted about the big 3... I feed Pellets to the fish in the tank... I don't have any predators.. Be it Flatworms or Redbugs. NO algae to speak of and this all started about a month and a half ago.

 

[tmz]

A few things:

Fish waste is organic ;not bad unless there is too much of it. Nitrates are not bad per se except in excess. Nitrogen defeciencies may also occur but rarely in a fed tank but they are possible . Some nitrogen including nitrate is needed. FWIW,mine runs around 0 .2 ppm N3 . There is plenty of fish waste in the system which houses over 40 fish.

The numbers look ok if the tests are accurate. 1580 mag may be ok but is high; natural seawater is around 1280ppm; I prefer 1500 ias a high side ceiling and try to keep it in the low 1400s High mag can slow calcium carbonate formation and though the alk is ok at 7 it's skating the low edge of an acceptable range which combined with the high mag could be problematic. . 7 alk is fine if it is 7; much lower in combination with the high mag could slow growth particularly if there is PO4 around too. Metals can build up from salt mixes, foods etc but are usually bound to organics renderring them non toxic as long as the organics don't breakdown.. Some salt mixes include extra organics .

What is the specific gravity.? Has it changed recently.?

I wouldn't discount the potential effect of the led lighting,yet.

 

[tmz]

Well i figure setting up a Drip would work.. I guess I might need to invest in some kalk to add to my top off water. Raising my ALK will raise my PH if im not mistaken. or can I use Vinegar to counteract the raise in PH?

Raising alk will increase the buffering capability and may have a short term( hours) effect on ph which will be offset as CO2 from the air equilibrates with the tank water.
CO 2 levels in the water govern ph.

Kalk( calcium hydroxide CAO raises ph because it uses CO2 to make CO3( carbonte alkalinity). It raises both alkalinity and calcium. At full saturation, ie two tsps per gallon of fresh water, it has a ph of around 12.5. Vinegar is an acid and can be used to lower the ph or to increase the saturation level from 2 tsps per gallon to near 3 tsps per gallon. Vinegar is also a source of organic carbon and feeds bacteria ,so care in the amount used is prudent to avoid bacterial blooms which can deplete oxygen in the tank.