Low pH question

Shock130

New member
Ive done some reading, but cannot seem to figure out the answer to my problem.

Ive ALWAYS had a low pH problem in the past 2 years or so, but now that I setup a new tank, I want to try and get everything right.

My controller is reading 7.55 pH in the tank, and about 7.65 in a cup out of the tank (so there has to be some interference, When i turn off all equipment in my sump, the pH is 7.65

Anyways the rest of my params are
KH 7.8
Calc 460
Mag 1400

My Salifert pH test i cannot decide what it is. is about a 7.7 but its not the same color as 7.7 and cannot decide if i should round up alittle or down. its a green yellow, but not the same shade of green as a 8

So either way, my pH is low. Ive tried to put a cup of water outside with an airpump for an hour, i tested it then controller said about 7.75

So what can i do next to fix my pH, or figure out what the problem is?

I dont like using additives if i dont have to, but I have Kalk, and ive never used it, I would be using it in my ATO bucket.
 
Use the kalk. Your tank water isn't much different from an aerated cup so you have CO2 in your home making your PH drop. You can open some windows for fresh air or install a vent to get some outside air. Simplest is the kalk though. Don't hurt to tryand see where it puts you
 
What is the best way to use the kalk?

I will be putting it in a 5 gallon bucket (about 4 gallons of water) with an aqualifter for top off. I know kalk gets messy and clogs pumps, so ill probably have to clean aqualifter once a month?

But I go through that 4 gallons every 6 days or so, I have a float valve on the bucket, so once its empty, i just open the valve to ATO, and it fills my bucket back up. Do I just add the kalk to the bucket? Stir it up and pump the water about 3 inches above bottom so its not picking up the milky stuff? Then what do I do when I add more water? Do I need to add more kalk? stir it up? etc. Im a completely newb with kalk, ive done some reading, and some people say different stuff.

Also, if I have a problem with CO2, what would it do running my skimmer air tube to the outside? Or in my case, It would be in the attic? I have a attic fan that I can run the tube to, so it has access to fresh air rather than just air in the attic.
 
You want to make sure that if your float switch fails on open you do not add more kalk than you tank can handle, or it can cause some serious problems. In many cases this may take a timer for protection.

To start with, I would use 1 teaspoon of kalk per gallon of rodi water in your top-off. You can simply refill the top-off tank when its empty and add the 1 tsp kalk per gallon to fill it up. Stir it well once and let it settle. Draw the top-off about 1-2" inches or more from the bottom. You do not need to empty the contaminates each time. In my case using a 50 g. container I clean it once per year. You will dose the kalk to maintain your alk level and you can add up to 2 teaspoons of kalk per 1 gallon rodi before it is maxed out (unless you decide to use some vinegar to get more out of your kalk). ;)
 
I mixxed up the kalk hours ago, and it's still all milky, is it safe to add?

once the tank is back to good params I'll start reading about vinegar :)
 
Kalk should do the trick, I always battled low Ph myself. More and more I'm seeing people recommending against mixing, since that introduces C02 into it which makes the Kalk less potent.
 
Now my question is, once my pH hits my desired level, what do i do then? stop kalk, and go back to regular ro/di until it drops again? my pH has gone up about .25 in 18 hours of kalk.
 
would running an airline from your skimmer intake outside work to raise the pH? Basically draw outside air into the skimmer instead of using inside air??
 
Ive thought about that, but i dont know where I can run it, im on the 3rd floor of the house. so I have the attic all around my bedroom. There is an attic fan I could run the line to, to get fresh air, but thats about the only place I can think of thats higher than the skimmer.
 
It wouldn't be too hard for me, just wonder if it would do any good....I struggle with low PH also, but don't want to have high ALK....hehehe Anyone run an airline from outside??
 
It wouldn't be too hard for me, just wonder if it would do any good....I struggle with low PH also, but don't want to have high ALK....hehehe Anyone run an airline from outside??


I run my airline from my skimmer intake out my basement window. It helped significantly in raising my pH but I had a lot of indoor co2. The aereration test that shock did only showed a 0.1 increase from the tank to water aererated outside. That makes it sound to me like the indoor air co2 isn't the major cause of the low pH. Running the airline intake outside can't hurt, but it likely won't raise your pH any higher than the results you saw with the aereration test.


I would suggest an increase in your total alk level (if your not using bacterial proliferation for nutrient management (carbon dosing - vodka, sugar, vinegar, zeo, prodibio, etc...).

Jeremy
 
You want to make sure that if your float switch fails on open you do not add more kalk than you tank can handle, or it can cause some serious problems. In many cases this may take a timer for protection.

To start with, I would use 1 teaspoon of kalk per gallon of rodi water in your top-off. You can simply refill the top-off tank when its empty and add the 1 tsp kalk per gallon to fill it up. Stir it well once and let it settle. Draw the top-off about 1-2" inches or more from the bottom. You do not need to empty the contaminates each time. In my case using a 50 g. container I clean it once per year. You will dose the kalk to maintain your alk level and you can add up to 2 teaspoons of kalk per 1 gallon rodi before it is maxed out (unless you decide to use some vinegar to get more out of your kalk). ;)


That is a huge argument AGAINST using kalk or limewater in an ATO

I don't know about Kalk but adding 1 teaspoon of Mrs Wages pickling lime in 5 gallons of water sends the PH off the charts.....if that gets dumped into a tank - unless its a huge tank - its gonna kill everything. How big is your tank ??? A safer bet in the ATO would be Seachem "Reef Buffer" which limits the PH to 8.3 when 1 teaspoon is added to 40 gallons of water. It also raises your Alk by .5 meq/l or 1.4 dkh per 40 gallons.

If you mix up a batch to fit the size of your tank, say 40 gallons (1 teaspoon) or 120 gallons (3 teaspoons), etc.....it doesn't matter whether you dump that mix into a 2, 5, or 15 gallon ATO reservoir. Should something malfunction and end up dumping the entire contents of your reservoir into your tank, your PH and Alk won't raise any higher than your prescribed recipe. You can't say that with limewater (and I assume kalk too) because to the best of my knowledge there is no limewater recipe that "limits" the amount of PH put into the tank at any one time should a catastrophic event occur. Please correct me if I'm wrong......

You got to drip the stuff for just that reason, the drip method itself limits how much can get into your tank at any one time. An ATO can't do that so using a buffer like Seachem gives you some protection. And the price ain't bad considering you can treat 2000 gallons for less than 10 bucks. Not to mention all that crap that falls out of the limewater mix into your ATO reservoir gets all stirred up again when you add more water - this "cloud" can end up in your display.
 
That is a huge argument AGAINST using kalk or limewater in an ATO

I don't know about Kalk but adding 1 teaspoon of Mrs Wages pickling lime in 5 gallons of water sends the PH off the charts.....if that gets dumped into a tank - unless its a huge tank - its gonna kill everything. How big is your tank ??? A safer bet in the ATO would be Seachem "Reef Buffer" which limits the PH to 8.3 when 1 teaspoon is added to 40 gallons of water. It also raises your Alk by .5 meq/l or 1.4 dkh per 40 gallons.

If you mix up a batch to fit the size of your tank, say 40 gallons (1 teaspoon) or 120 gallons (3 teaspoons), etc.....it doesn't matter whether you dump that mix into a 2, 5, or 15 gallon ATO reservoir. Should something malfunction and end up dumping the entire contents of your reservoir into your tank, your PH and Alk won't raise any higher than your prescribed recipe. You can't say that with limewater (and I assume kalk too) because to the best of my knowledge there is no limewater recipe that "limits" the amount of PH put into the tank at any one time should a catastrophic event occur. Please correct me if I'm wrong......

You got to drip the stuff for just that reason, the drip method itself limits how much can get into your tank at any one time. An ATO can't do that so using a buffer like Seachem gives you some protection. And the price ain't bad considering you can treat 2000 gallons for less than 10 bucks. Not to mention all that crap that falls out of the limewater mix into your ATO reservoir gets all stirred up again when you add more water - this "cloud" can end up in your display.

Oh, where to begin.

To start with, kalk is limewater. The same as pickling lime, kalkwasser, limewater, etc....


Should something malfunction and end up dumping the entire contents of your reservoir into your tank, your PH and Alk won't raise any higher than your prescribed recipe.

This is absolutley incorrect. Your prescription of using reef buffer will spike alk just the same as kalk if there is an accidental overdose. The amount of alk spike is merely dependant on the amount of reef buffer you have in your ATO resivoir.

Adding seachem reef buffer to the ATO is a means of only alk supplementation. Kalk is a balanced dose of alk and ca therefore there is no further need for ca supplementation as your recipe would require.

I'm not sure what type of ATO system you use, but using seachem buffer in your ATO is really no less risky than adding kalk to your ATO. (That is, unless your ATO is a regimen of once daily dumping in your full days worth of top off at one time. Even in that case, the alk spike that the seachem reef buffer will cause will be as detrimental as dosing the kalk saturated top off water). Your claim that seachem reef buffer won't spike pH like kalk may be true, however, the overdose of FW as well as the alk spike will likely be as detrimental or more detrimental than the effects than the pH spike from the kalk.

Seachem reef buffer is far more expensive than kalk and you would also have to pay for a ca supplement if your just dosing reef buffer. Kalk is very cheap.

The reaction that kalk has with co2 in the tank is very beneficial in maintaining a proper pH. Seachem reef buffer is just a well marketed alk supplement and not a replacement or equivalent of what kalk can do. BTW, seachem reef buffer is only slightly different from simple baking soda. The marketing claim of containing mag, sr, and borate salts may be true, but the amounts that they would add is of such minor significance that it's all but exactly the same as dosing baking soda.

Dosing seachem reef buffer in your ATO in replacement of kalk dosing, to prevent a pH spike as a safety precaution during an accidental overdose, is a very poor choice.

Jeremy
 
Oh, where to begin.

To start with, kalk is limewater. The same as pickling lime, kalkwasser, limewater, etc....




This is absolutley incorrect. Your prescription of using reef buffer will spike alk just the same as kalk if there is an accidental overdose. The amount of alk spike is merely dependant on the amount of reef buffer you have in your ATO resivoir.

The original post concerned itself with PH not alkalinity. My point was how much you gonna raise your PH if 5 gallons of limewater dumps into a 40 gallon tank all at once ??? Its gonna be off the charts and kill everything. A teaspoon of pickling lime in a 5 gallon bucket of RO will raise the PH of that 5 gallons off the color chart.

The same can't be said for reef buffer, tablespoons of that won't raise the PH higher than 8.3 My only comment about alk was as a byproduct of the buffer it will raise your alk by 1.4 How much more will "tablespoons" of buffer raise alk, I don't know but its not gonna raise the PH by more than 8.3 and who's gonna completely disregard the directions and dump tablespoons of buffer into their ATO ???


Adding seachem reef buffer to the ATO is a means of only alk supplementation. Kalk is a balanced dose of alk and ca therefore there is no further need for ca supplementation as your recipe would require.

I'm not sure what type of ATO system you use, but using seachem buffer in your ATO is really no less risky than adding kalk to your ATO.

Completely untrue, the buffer won't raise your PH higher than 8.3, the same can't be said for limewater. And if by some chance you get your alk up too high because the ATO completely dumps into it, it is gonna be easier and safer to lower it than if your PH is off the charts. The fish can survive in high alk long enough for the reefer to lower it - and it probably won't skyrocket all the sudden anyways via your ATO - but fish sure aren't gonna survive a PH burn and if somehow they do they won't survive it for long.

(That is, unless your ATO is a regimen of once daily dumping in your full days worth of top off at one time. Even in that case, the alk spike that the seachem reef buffer will cause will be as detrimental as dosing the kalk saturated top off water).

No, your missing it....you make up a recipe of buffer based upon the amount of tank water. 1 teaspoon is good for 40 gallons, 3 teaspoons for 120, etc....and under that specific formula you are not gonna raise your alk by more than 1.4 if the entire mixture was dumped into that amount of water all at once. Since its in your ATO if its all at once alk won't raise higher than 1.4 dkh and PH won't go higher than 8.3

What is the formula for limewater to consistantly keep your PH at 8.3 ?? How 'bout raising your alk by 1.4 ??? The stuff is too strong, an 1/8th of a teaspoon of pickling lime in 5 gallons of water will raise PH off the charts - I know I tried limewater in my ATO. I ended up emptying an 8 gallon reservoir and with the mix I had left in a 5 gallon bucket I was dumping a 12 ounce cup of the stuff back into my ATO reservoir of 8 gallons and the PH was still too high. I may be wrong but I don't think the effects of dumping 8 gallons of Seachem "buffered" top off water of even a strong mix of say, 1 tablespoon of buffer per gallon of water, will raise the alk to such high levels that its gonna crash your tank.


Your claim that seachem reef buffer won't spike pH like kalk may be true, however, the overdose of FW as well as the alk spike will likely be as detrimental or more detrimental than the effects than the pH spike from the kalk.

I disagree.... especially about the freshwater scenario, fish can take the drop in salinity its the raising of it too quick that's harmful.

Seachem reef buffer is far more expensive than kalk and you would also have to pay for a ca supplement if your just dosing reef buffer. Kalk is very cheap.

Yeah in the long run you're gonna pay more because its not as strong but how much is your livestock worth ?? The simplest way is to drip dose kalk, you're gonna get a slow drip and you don't have to worry about a tank crash - but that's not what the OP's question was about.

The reaction that kalk has with co2 in the tank is very beneficial in maintaining a proper pH. Seachem reef buffer is just a well marketed alk supplement and not a replacement or equivalent of what kalk can do.

Are you're confusing "Reef Builder" with Reef Buffer ?? They may be 6 of one / half dozen of another but one is marketed as a supplement while the other is considered a buffer. Again, I'm not sure how the discussion turned to raising alk when the OP was asking about PH ???

BTW, seachem reef buffer is only slightly different from simple baking soda. The marketing claim of containing mag, sr, and borate salts may be true, but the amounts that they would add is of such minor significance that it's all but exactly the same as dosing baking soda.

Dosing seachem reef buffer in your ATO in replacement of kalk dosing, to prevent a pH spike as a safety precaution during an accidental overdose, is a very poor choice.

Maybe so, but to keep your PH in check only, like the OP asked about, is best utilized through a buffer if you want to use your ATO rather than some sort of drip method....

Jeremy
 
Whoadat.
Ok??? Best of luck with your endeavors of using reef buffer in your ATO. If you think an accidental dump of the resevoir won't raise you alk then your sadly mistaken. Yes the OP's question was about pH, but the reef buffer, builder, and kalk will all increase total alkalinity.

Mixing up the total volume of tank water or mixing a small amount doesn't make a difference (if the concentration is the same). It's the total amount that gets dumped from your top off bin which will determine the pH or alk increase.

I'm content to agree to disagree with your indication of pH management.

Jeremy
 
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Ok now now kids. Im the OP, and Ive been trying Kalk. If my ATO dumps too much kalk in, my controller will shut off the ATO pump, and send me a text. So ill risk it ;) Thanks for everyones help and input!
 
What is the formula for limewater to consistantly keep your PH at 8.3 ?? How 'bout raising your alk by 1.4 ??? The stuff is too strong, an 1/8th of a teaspoon of pickling lime in 5 gallons of water will raise PH off the charts - I know I tried limewater in my ATO.

I'm sorry you've had trouble with limewater, but there are clear answers to those questions which we can provide to folks who are interested. Well, at least as clear as with a buffer. Much of the time that answer needs to be arrived at by trial and error for all such methods, but the effect of limewater on pH and alkalinity is an exact, known number. :)

FWIW, I've used limewater for 14 years in ATO, and would not switch away. :)


Maybe so, but to keep your PH in check only, like the OP asked about, is best utilized through a buffer if you want to use your ATO rather than some sort of drip method....


No, it is not for many people. Buffers cannot maintain pH in a huge number of aquaria where there is excess CO2. Even limewater, packing a whale of a lot more pH punch often are inadequate. The claims about pH 8.3 and such for buffers are just simply marketing crapola. :(
 
I just started using kalk for a low pH problem also. And it has worked better than I could have hoped so far. My pH is now holding steady at 8.10, which is saying something. Because before the kalk it would never reach even 7.95. Even with the window open for days it would barely reach 7.90. So for it to be 8.10 is great. It was normall 7.75 and sometimes even lower than that in the mornings.
 
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