tigerarmy40
New member
if you gottem!
Lowes sand okay for reef?
- Thread starter bennerkla
- Start date
michaelm2431
New member
michaelm2431
New member
michaelm2431
New member
Sorry.
michaelm2431
New member
Thanks. Only had one problem when my power head lost the suction cup, and pointed more direct on the sand.
Indermark
New member
yeah it seems that suction cups make it about 6 months submerged in water and then they start to get hard or brittle and then they don't stick as well. I am surprised with the technology that companies use that someone hasn't made a suction cup that lasts a lot longer or maybe....dare i say it?....FOREVER.
Ryan
Ryan
LegoZ81
New member
I have plain old sand (silcia) in my 29 and nothing seems to want to burrow in it, to the point that the bristle worms hung out in the pores of the rock only.
Also with a DSB, Hydrogen Sulphide is produced and is acidic so in belief is that the acid would break down the sand (aragonite) in the tank and release calcium and neutralize the acid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide
Acidity (pKa) 6.89 19±2 (See Text) maybe one of the Chem guy can convert this to pH for me...
"In aquariums, compacted substrate can breed bacteria that generate this gas due to the low level of oxygen available. Normally the level of released gas is very low as the substrate traps it and the fish or owner is not aware of it. However if the owner decides to rearrange objects in the tank, the substrate is disturbed and so large amounts of the gas can be released and prove to be toxic or even deadly to the fish in the tank. Aquarium owners often either regularly disturb the substrate to prevent the buildup or they add Malaysian Trumpet Snails which burrow into the substrate and thereby aerate it to prevent the production of the gas."
Just some info... Plus what I got from Menards here was brown and GREATLY reduced the amount of light reflected back up into the water column. Also it was just plain ugly!
Also with a DSB, Hydrogen Sulphide is produced and is acidic so in belief is that the acid would break down the sand (aragonite) in the tank and release calcium and neutralize the acid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide
Acidity (pKa) 6.89 19±2 (See Text) maybe one of the Chem guy can convert this to pH for me...
"In aquariums, compacted substrate can breed bacteria that generate this gas due to the low level of oxygen available. Normally the level of released gas is very low as the substrate traps it and the fish or owner is not aware of it. However if the owner decides to rearrange objects in the tank, the substrate is disturbed and so large amounts of the gas can be released and prove to be toxic or even deadly to the fish in the tank. Aquarium owners often either regularly disturb the substrate to prevent the buildup or they add Malaysian Trumpet Snails which burrow into the substrate and thereby aerate it to prevent the production of the gas."
Just some info... Plus what I got from Menards here was brown and GREATLY reduced the amount of light reflected back up into the water column. Also it was just plain ugly!
michaelm2431
New member
I'm looking into the new magnets the have to hold the PH on.
reefshadow
New member
Brown silica would have been greatly impure, imo.
Good silica sand (sio2) is colorless and crystalline and should be white. I don't know what your brown sand was but it wasn't pure silica.
My sand is full of microfauna, from pods to spaghetti worms, i even have feather dusters growing out of it in places. it is very active. I have run sandbeds composed of both aragonite and silica and have seen no difference in the amount of fauna.
Not all beach sand is aragonite, in fact i would bet that the majority worldwide is composed primarily of quartz and silica. I don't think that it is lacking fauna, macro or microscopic.
I think it is a total myth that it will cut your organisms up.
As far as aragonite- if you like it use it. it's that simple.
Quote from Lego: "Also with a DSB, Hydrogen Sulphide is produced and is acidic so in belief is that the acid would break down the sand (aragonite) in the tank and release calcium and neutralize the acid."
Sorry, but i don't buy this. At least not as an argument for aragonite. I know of plenty of people who have disturbed aragonite dsb's and had a h. sulfide event that was deadly. I'm not sure if you are also implying dissolution of the aragonite to buffer the aquariums ca and alk. If so i believe that is primarily a myth. You may get some dissolution at deep levels, but not enough to buffer your tank.
fwiw, I don't run a dsb at all, I would consider my sand to be a ssb, with a minimum of 1/2 inch and a max of 2, depending on how the current has moved it. i also vaccum about monthly to remove major detritus. so no h. sulfide for me, in fact no aneorobic bacteria for me at all. my s.b. probably has o2 all the way down to the bottom.
so i say if you can find good silica, go for it.
Good silica sand (sio2) is colorless and crystalline and should be white. I don't know what your brown sand was but it wasn't pure silica.
My sand is full of microfauna, from pods to spaghetti worms, i even have feather dusters growing out of it in places. it is very active. I have run sandbeds composed of both aragonite and silica and have seen no difference in the amount of fauna.
Not all beach sand is aragonite, in fact i would bet that the majority worldwide is composed primarily of quartz and silica. I don't think that it is lacking fauna, macro or microscopic.
I think it is a total myth that it will cut your organisms up.
As far as aragonite- if you like it use it. it's that simple.
Quote from Lego: "Also with a DSB, Hydrogen Sulphide is produced and is acidic so in belief is that the acid would break down the sand (aragonite) in the tank and release calcium and neutralize the acid."
Sorry, but i don't buy this. At least not as an argument for aragonite. I know of plenty of people who have disturbed aragonite dsb's and had a h. sulfide event that was deadly. I'm not sure if you are also implying dissolution of the aragonite to buffer the aquariums ca and alk. If so i believe that is primarily a myth. You may get some dissolution at deep levels, but not enough to buffer your tank.
fwiw, I don't run a dsb at all, I would consider my sand to be a ssb, with a minimum of 1/2 inch and a max of 2, depending on how the current has moved it. i also vaccum about monthly to remove major detritus. so no h. sulfide for me, in fact no aneorobic bacteria for me at all. my s.b. probably has o2 all the way down to the bottom.
so i say if you can find good silica, go for it.
LegoZ81
New member
I could care less... no where did I say that neutralizing the acidity of H2S would render it non poisoness. My arguement is that in a DSB it could possibly help to regulate a more neutral pH in the SANDBED in the anaerobic layer only not the tank. FWIW I would not run a DSB with Silica in a closed system.
There is a thread I posted in the chem forum about what happends when aragonite and H2s meet we'll see if that can shed any light on this.
If you are doing a SSB and can find the sand that reefshadow used and has worked for her or find any of the specific sand that others have used go for it.
The stuff I have in my 29 though IMO is a failed experiment.
Last edited:
reefshadow
New member
Ok, fine. I do care however, at least enough to defend the safety of SILICA sand, not some brown sand with god knows what impurities in it. Sorry, but whatever you put in your reef was at the most very impure silica, at the very least hardly silica at all. I'm not trying to yank yer chain or anything, but I have used good silica very long term and had no problems with it as have many others. That sucks that you got a bad sand.
One question I have though on your theory, and i'm not being facecious at all. If a dsb composed of aragonite can help regulate a more neutral ph in the sandbed, how does that explain the tendency of some aragonite dsb's to concrete? It was my understanding that only a very stagnant low ph environment could lead to this.
Anyway...
Here's a pic of the specific sand that I have used with great success.
Note the warning. ALL Silica sand should have a prominent warning on the bag, and an MSDS available. If it doesn't have the warning and MSDS, don't buy and use it, unless you are absolutely sure of the composition. No, never mind that last. Just don't use it at all.
Here is a pic of the actual dry sand. It is white and crystalline. Usable silica sand should always be primarily white/colourless. This stuff does contain quartz as well which is primarily composed of... guess what- silicone dioxide. Quartz grains may contain some mineral impurities which give it various colours, but it takes a very strong acid like HF to dissolve it at all. I had to sift through it to find any coloured grains to look at.
As an additional note, I know a glass guy who uses this same brand due to it's purity and cheapness. I'm not sure if this is available nationwide or not, I suspect it may be the same stuff Simplot quarries in Idaho, repackaged for Quikrete. The Simplot sand is very high grade and used for many industrial applications where purity is a must.
Anyhoo, yeah. Don't use brown 'silica' sand.
JM2C
LegoZ81
New member
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7576519#post7576519
me = teh owned
K
I used regular old kids silica play sand. (not "white play sand") when I got it that was all there in town at the time (and the paver stuff which at the time I swear people were touting that it had stuff that would wipeout the tank)
here is a comparison shot:
top layer is Aragonite
bottom is the "silica play sand"
So many apologize reefshadow, I have no idea what my problem was earlier... Have a good one!
oh and listen to her "Anyhoo, yeah. Don't use brown 'silica' sand."
me = teh owned
K
I used regular old kids silica play sand. (not "white play sand") when I got it that was all there in town at the time (and the paver stuff which at the time I swear people were touting that it had stuff that would wipeout the tank)
here is a comparison shot:
top layer is Aragonite
bottom is the "silica play sand"
So many apologize reefshadow, I have no idea what my problem was earlier... Have a good one!
oh and listen to her "Anyhoo, yeah. Don't use brown 'silica' sand."
LegoZ81
New member
here is an image of a similar product as what I bought:
from:
http://www.flatrockbagging.com/sand/silica.html
from:
http://www.flatrockbagging.com/sand/silica.html
reefshadow
New member
LOL. Ok. I get it. I finally get it!!!
Yes folks, they are finally selling silica play sand!!! Guaranteed to give your fragile children silicosis!!! Get it while supplies last!!!
Ok, then I was being facecious. That is additional proof that that is not silica sand. Now I am 100 percent sure, instead of 99.999. Silica sand would never be packaged as play sand. Inhaling free silica is dangerous, and users are cautioned to wear a mask anytime handling it.
Again, i'm rather sorry this has gotten your dander up, but that is not silica sand. I'm not claiming that I know what it was, but I do know what it was not.
I don't get what the link was for.
Yes folks, they are finally selling silica play sand!!! Guaranteed to give your fragile children silicosis!!! Get it while supplies last!!!
Ok, then I was being facecious. That is additional proof that that is not silica sand. Now I am 100 percent sure, instead of 99.999. Silica sand would never be packaged as play sand. Inhaling free silica is dangerous, and users are cautioned to wear a mask anytime handling it.
Again, i'm rather sorry this has gotten your dander up, but that is not silica sand. I'm not claiming that I know what it was, but I do know what it was not.
I don't get what the link was for.
reefshadow
New member
Late edit-
So i'm not misunderstood, when I say your sand is not silica, I mean it is not industrial grade silica. It most certainly contains some ratio of silica, it is one of the most abundant minerals on earth. It probably also contains in an unknown ratio; clay, soil, quartz, feldspar, and a grab bag of other associated minerals, rendering it safe for children to play with. One/some of these could have caused the bad result, ugly sand you experienced. Silica is colouress/white and crystalline.
Again, I wouldn't buy any 'silica' sand w/o the MSDS or bag warning. In some states they put a warning about hazardous/carcinogenous blah blah blah on the playsand, even if it has a very small percentage of free silica. -not sure if you are in one of those states- Best to look at the MSDS.
So i'm not misunderstood, when I say your sand is not silica, I mean it is not industrial grade silica. It most certainly contains some ratio of silica, it is one of the most abundant minerals on earth. It probably also contains in an unknown ratio; clay, soil, quartz, feldspar, and a grab bag of other associated minerals, rendering it safe for children to play with. One/some of these could have caused the bad result, ugly sand you experienced. Silica is colouress/white and crystalline.
Again, I wouldn't buy any 'silica' sand w/o the MSDS or bag warning. In some states they put a warning about hazardous/carcinogenous blah blah blah on the playsand, even if it has a very small percentage of free silica. -not sure if you are in one of those states- Best to look at the MSDS.
Lego forgot
H2S → HS− + H+
Ka = 1.3Ã"”10−7 mol/L; pKa = 6.89.
Think of it this way;
H2S (50%) <-- 6.89pH-->. HS− + H+(50%)
It means that at STP for Fw at a pH of 6.89 the H2S concentration will be eqaul to H3- + H+ or 50 % of each. Thus, at a pH lower than 6.89 there will be more H2S than HS- H+ and at a pH above 6.89 there will be more HS- + H+ than H2S. This pKa will not be 6.89 for seawater, it will shift to the left a tad.
H2S → HS− + H+
Ka = 1.3Ã"”10−7 mol/L; pKa = 6.89.
Think of it this way;
H2S (50%) <-- 6.89pH-->. HS− + H+(50%)
It means that at STP for Fw at a pH of 6.89 the H2S concentration will be eqaul to H3- + H+ or 50 % of each. Thus, at a pH lower than 6.89 there will be more H2S than HS- H+ and at a pH above 6.89 there will be more HS- + H+ than H2S. This pKa will not be 6.89 for seawater, it will shift to the left a tad.
scottfarcuz
New member
I've used the quickrete sand reefshadow posted in several tanks now with no problems at all. BTW she mentioned earlier a study done on this in which silica supported the most life. The study was done by Dr.Ron. Here is a thread where he talks about it.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344088
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344088
