Reef N Discus
New member
First off please forgive me if I write to long of a post but I got a few questions and explainations on why I am thinking what I am thinking. Also thank you now for taking your time to read my questions/thoughts and for any responses I may get as a result. I am new to SW but have had freshwater for years I have a 55 gallon discus tank as of now and I am in the midsts of setting up my first 75 gallon reef tank 29 gallon sump fuge.
Ok so heres my questions thoughts concerns, I see some use base rock as a means or substitue for LR becuase of price of the LR in comparison to the base rock or becuase there trying to limit the amount of un wanted critters as LR is a non discriminate host of all types of life this makes sense to me. If the LZR is the primary means of biological fitration than in my opinon why would you need the LR would nt the pourous dry rock in time grow all the anarobic/arebic bacteria needed to susstain the reef given you have enough of the correct type of rock that is? I am getting a shipment of Marco Rocks due to be deliverd today I order 75 lbs for my 75 gallon tank and the total shipment weigth is 81 lbs was thinkink of adding 5 - 10lbs of LR to the base rock but now I am having second thoughts. If one can "kick start" the nitrogeon cycle with nothing more than a raw pice of shrimp than why is the LR needed? The critters that are dead or dying or will die fro the amonia spike in the newly setup tank seem like nothing more than an expensive way of introducing the amonia needed to get the cycle going. This seem counter productive to me, in freshwater we grow our colonies well for me in my canister filter with ceramic rings, but as you al know there is bio balls and I have heard of people even using those plastic pot scrubers and so forth nothing live there? So if all we need is the anarobic/arebic conditions wich will be gained by the pourous dry rock and a cheap amonia source is added then why the need for the LR? Sure it comes with all kinds of cool critiers but as stated earlier you also get the ones you do not want around. Most of the life has already died or is dying and or will die in the cycleing of he new tank so its an expensive amonia source? The critters that do survive may also some of which may be unwanted pestes and hence antoher reason why some exp reefers I hve been reading about use 90% or more dry rock. COuld I now just use the dry rock and a shrimp maybe The live sand I plan on adding to my sump/fuge which will also help out with the seeding of any more crushed coral sand and maybe even the dry rock?
If I just went ahead with the 80lbs dry rock from Marco Rocks and the live sand fuge/ chateo sump would I not be able to create the conditons needed to sustain a mixed reef tank or is the LR the only way to do this? Just seem to me in additons to the other things I stated about the LR its expensive not to mention it hurts the natrual reefs as well and this seem like a more ecological and financial way of doing things, SO WHAT AM I MISSING? I know there has got to be something I am not getting other wise you exp reefers would be doing it this way. Also doesn't the chateo ned harvested to remove the nutirents it sucked up? I read a recent post from a reefer who is having problems with his chateo dyiong back a bit he noted when he started he had a fist size ball and it grew to the size of two basket ball sizes before he had issues but I thought you were suppose to harvest about half of what grew on a monthly basis in order to remove the bad stuff in other words it like a sponge and the key is after it suced up what its purpose is designd for dont you want to get rid of it after that?
One more question in terms of the nitrogeon cycle it seem to me that the SW guys have got it figured out on how to get rid of the last part of that cycle the nitrates with the anarobic bacteria wether deep within the LR or in a DSB which I plan on having in the sump only an ornamental amount of a couple of inches in the DT. Well in freshwaetr game the only way we know how to get rid of the nitrates the end result of the nitrogeon cycle is by way of water changes, additevs, sponges, catchen resions or whatever and Live plants. We try to keep away from any type of anorobic conditon at all costs it seem to me if the freshwater guys including my self could addpot what the SW guys have figured out then the nitrates could be taken care of by deep sand bed and a bunch of snails with anorobic bacteria I wonder why we dont do this in freshawter hmmm?
On of the exp guys on here did tell me that eventually even dry rock would become LR given time, so I know the process may take a little while longer with little to no LR but hey its been said this hobby is for the patient and in order to keep un wanted pests out from the sart I am willing to wait a little longer on my tanks cycling. Seem to me a noob like my self could have a bad exp rite off the bat if the expensive LR he purchased for his tank after taking out a second mortage on his house to do so lol he could be introducing something unsavory to the tank that came on in with that LR. Seems to be the potential benefit of the benfical inhabitants does not out way byt he isk if you know waht I mean and I would rather by snails and littel crabs and so forth rather than take a crap shoot at what I am getting on my LR and in trun putiing into my brand new system. Now I know it has been siad you can not purchase all those little criters thats on that live rock, but I think theres enough otu there more than enough out there that you can buy and perhaps make up for in live sand that your not really missing anything? I mean what are you really aming to get with that LR that your tank can not possibly live or survive without? and that can be made up for in the way of buyin some of the criters like crab, shrimp, and live sand instead? seem like a much safer and enviromentaly safer option not to mention you know for the most part exactly what is going into your new prize.
Not to mention the words respnsible reefing come to mind and thinking green and trying to limit the amount of negitive impact on the earths land and oceans that our hobbys produce LR harvested from the ocean where millions of reefers purchase hundreds of pounds from year after year kind of like deforestation with out re planting a little tree in its place where is the responsible reefing in that? I am not saying I would not buy some LR but instead of 100% LR more like 90 95% dry rock and the rest in LR but if i could make up for the LR with a DSB, fuge, or buying som critters I can control whats going into my tank I certainly would rather do that. I am not just motivated by trying to save money and i am not a radical or a protester pitta type of person and I am not saying theres anything wrong with those people at all their wonderful in their own wright But it does seem to me a bit contridictve and I am not seing the clear cut advantages of the LR yet and perhaps my views or opinions will change once I recive some enlightenment from you my fellow way way way more exp than me fellow hobyist. This is whay I come here to ask learn and ask more questions I am trying to understand how it all works and why we do something I hate just doing something because thats what eveyone else is doing and thats fine to in fact i am sure I will follow in the foots steps of an experinced reefer who has shown sucess becuae it helps my chances I just do not like doing something without understanding why first instead of just blindly following along with out knowing the who what were and whys behind it if that makes sense to anyone? ALso in freshwaetr (I just thought of this and want to get it out there i know it was mid stream thoguht but I do not wnat to forget) the reasonw hy anarobic condtions are not desirable is becuase they relase those bubbels indicating a anarobic condtionw hich brings with it something sulfade or sulfiate which is that rotten eggs mell you sometimes get in a freshwater tank? Well any way if this is coused by the anarobic bacetrai and bad for freshwater and freshwater fish I mean this stuff can spell certan death if not correct fast and I mean moving with a purpose lol then why is this not also true in SW tanks and the life it holds why doe sht anorobic becteria not creat posinous onditons in teh SW hobby like it does the freshwater hobby.
Well liek I said I am very sorry for such a long post but I am very courious baout this and would like some good sound answers before I proced with my bild/set up. I have started listening to the Rob Weatherly guy Has any one ever heard of him? He has hese pod casts out on the net with some video demos but mostly a collection of over some where around 150 pod cast episodes the first pod casst I ever in my entire life have ever heard and its listening intsed of reading you actually get to hear a voce and you can listen while you working if you have that type of job like I have where I can do this and it is very educational I think he was on for 4 years I ust started last week I am on episode 12 now and I was tunned into the fact of this show by a fellow RC member here who was sugestion to a fellow petco 14 day cycler guy to the shows for him and I decide to check it out for my self cool stuff I was wondering if any one ever heard of him or maybe heard his show before? His name I believe is Rob Wetherly and the web site he has a wed sit as well is called The Talking Reef, like i said he asnwered questions peop[le would wirte in and have topics and some video demos of things I do nto think he does it any more but the info is still way relevent in my opinon and it is good for neebs like me and for ones that want to hear a voice instead that made up one you use when you read a post at least I do lol hoep I am not alone on this or i amy be crazy. So you can go to Itunes store and search for this pod cast the talking reef and check it out. This is where some of my questions come form I figure even if I can not wirte into the show and ask hiom I can listen to the shows and bring my questions here to RC were the worlds most exp reefers hang out trying to share info amungs the selves while trying to help out noobs and self proclaimed aqutic experts that work at petco lol. Sorry could not resist it.
Thank you all again for your time to read and to answer what you could even if you just skimed I thank you for taking the time out to help me thanks again its even in my signature permantly and forever thanking all of you who take the time out to help this noobie. Thank you.
Look forward toi reading your respone on this and I hope it does not rub any one the wrong way I am just simply trying to learn and asking quesitons reading posts and gather information from where ever I can to do so. i am not setting up my tank until I have a firm grasp on whats going on or at least an exllaintation of what I am doing before I proced so I am trying to learn what I can now. Thank you Nate W
Ok so heres my questions thoughts concerns, I see some use base rock as a means or substitue for LR becuase of price of the LR in comparison to the base rock or becuase there trying to limit the amount of un wanted critters as LR is a non discriminate host of all types of life this makes sense to me. If the LZR is the primary means of biological fitration than in my opinon why would you need the LR would nt the pourous dry rock in time grow all the anarobic/arebic bacteria needed to susstain the reef given you have enough of the correct type of rock that is? I am getting a shipment of Marco Rocks due to be deliverd today I order 75 lbs for my 75 gallon tank and the total shipment weigth is 81 lbs was thinkink of adding 5 - 10lbs of LR to the base rock but now I am having second thoughts. If one can "kick start" the nitrogeon cycle with nothing more than a raw pice of shrimp than why is the LR needed? The critters that are dead or dying or will die fro the amonia spike in the newly setup tank seem like nothing more than an expensive way of introducing the amonia needed to get the cycle going. This seem counter productive to me, in freshwater we grow our colonies well for me in my canister filter with ceramic rings, but as you al know there is bio balls and I have heard of people even using those plastic pot scrubers and so forth nothing live there? So if all we need is the anarobic/arebic conditions wich will be gained by the pourous dry rock and a cheap amonia source is added then why the need for the LR? Sure it comes with all kinds of cool critiers but as stated earlier you also get the ones you do not want around. Most of the life has already died or is dying and or will die in the cycleing of he new tank so its an expensive amonia source? The critters that do survive may also some of which may be unwanted pestes and hence antoher reason why some exp reefers I hve been reading about use 90% or more dry rock. COuld I now just use the dry rock and a shrimp maybe The live sand I plan on adding to my sump/fuge which will also help out with the seeding of any more crushed coral sand and maybe even the dry rock?
If I just went ahead with the 80lbs dry rock from Marco Rocks and the live sand fuge/ chateo sump would I not be able to create the conditons needed to sustain a mixed reef tank or is the LR the only way to do this? Just seem to me in additons to the other things I stated about the LR its expensive not to mention it hurts the natrual reefs as well and this seem like a more ecological and financial way of doing things, SO WHAT AM I MISSING? I know there has got to be something I am not getting other wise you exp reefers would be doing it this way. Also doesn't the chateo ned harvested to remove the nutirents it sucked up? I read a recent post from a reefer who is having problems with his chateo dyiong back a bit he noted when he started he had a fist size ball and it grew to the size of two basket ball sizes before he had issues but I thought you were suppose to harvest about half of what grew on a monthly basis in order to remove the bad stuff in other words it like a sponge and the key is after it suced up what its purpose is designd for dont you want to get rid of it after that?
One more question in terms of the nitrogeon cycle it seem to me that the SW guys have got it figured out on how to get rid of the last part of that cycle the nitrates with the anarobic bacteria wether deep within the LR or in a DSB which I plan on having in the sump only an ornamental amount of a couple of inches in the DT. Well in freshwaetr game the only way we know how to get rid of the nitrates the end result of the nitrogeon cycle is by way of water changes, additevs, sponges, catchen resions or whatever and Live plants. We try to keep away from any type of anorobic conditon at all costs it seem to me if the freshwater guys including my self could addpot what the SW guys have figured out then the nitrates could be taken care of by deep sand bed and a bunch of snails with anorobic bacteria I wonder why we dont do this in freshawter hmmm?
On of the exp guys on here did tell me that eventually even dry rock would become LR given time, so I know the process may take a little while longer with little to no LR but hey its been said this hobby is for the patient and in order to keep un wanted pests out from the sart I am willing to wait a little longer on my tanks cycling. Seem to me a noob like my self could have a bad exp rite off the bat if the expensive LR he purchased for his tank after taking out a second mortage on his house to do so lol he could be introducing something unsavory to the tank that came on in with that LR. Seems to be the potential benefit of the benfical inhabitants does not out way byt he isk if you know waht I mean and I would rather by snails and littel crabs and so forth rather than take a crap shoot at what I am getting on my LR and in trun putiing into my brand new system. Now I know it has been siad you can not purchase all those little criters thats on that live rock, but I think theres enough otu there more than enough out there that you can buy and perhaps make up for in live sand that your not really missing anything? I mean what are you really aming to get with that LR that your tank can not possibly live or survive without? and that can be made up for in the way of buyin some of the criters like crab, shrimp, and live sand instead? seem like a much safer and enviromentaly safer option not to mention you know for the most part exactly what is going into your new prize.
Not to mention the words respnsible reefing come to mind and thinking green and trying to limit the amount of negitive impact on the earths land and oceans that our hobbys produce LR harvested from the ocean where millions of reefers purchase hundreds of pounds from year after year kind of like deforestation with out re planting a little tree in its place where is the responsible reefing in that? I am not saying I would not buy some LR but instead of 100% LR more like 90 95% dry rock and the rest in LR but if i could make up for the LR with a DSB, fuge, or buying som critters I can control whats going into my tank I certainly would rather do that. I am not just motivated by trying to save money and i am not a radical or a protester pitta type of person and I am not saying theres anything wrong with those people at all their wonderful in their own wright But it does seem to me a bit contridictve and I am not seing the clear cut advantages of the LR yet and perhaps my views or opinions will change once I recive some enlightenment from you my fellow way way way more exp than me fellow hobyist. This is whay I come here to ask learn and ask more questions I am trying to understand how it all works and why we do something I hate just doing something because thats what eveyone else is doing and thats fine to in fact i am sure I will follow in the foots steps of an experinced reefer who has shown sucess becuae it helps my chances I just do not like doing something without understanding why first instead of just blindly following along with out knowing the who what were and whys behind it if that makes sense to anyone? ALso in freshwaetr (I just thought of this and want to get it out there i know it was mid stream thoguht but I do not wnat to forget) the reasonw hy anarobic condtions are not desirable is becuase they relase those bubbels indicating a anarobic condtionw hich brings with it something sulfade or sulfiate which is that rotten eggs mell you sometimes get in a freshwater tank? Well any way if this is coused by the anarobic bacetrai and bad for freshwater and freshwater fish I mean this stuff can spell certan death if not correct fast and I mean moving with a purpose lol then why is this not also true in SW tanks and the life it holds why doe sht anorobic becteria not creat posinous onditons in teh SW hobby like it does the freshwater hobby.
Well liek I said I am very sorry for such a long post but I am very courious baout this and would like some good sound answers before I proced with my bild/set up. I have started listening to the Rob Weatherly guy Has any one ever heard of him? He has hese pod casts out on the net with some video demos but mostly a collection of over some where around 150 pod cast episodes the first pod casst I ever in my entire life have ever heard and its listening intsed of reading you actually get to hear a voce and you can listen while you working if you have that type of job like I have where I can do this and it is very educational I think he was on for 4 years I ust started last week I am on episode 12 now and I was tunned into the fact of this show by a fellow RC member here who was sugestion to a fellow petco 14 day cycler guy to the shows for him and I decide to check it out for my self cool stuff I was wondering if any one ever heard of him or maybe heard his show before? His name I believe is Rob Wetherly and the web site he has a wed sit as well is called The Talking Reef, like i said he asnwered questions peop[le would wirte in and have topics and some video demos of things I do nto think he does it any more but the info is still way relevent in my opinon and it is good for neebs like me and for ones that want to hear a voice instead that made up one you use when you read a post at least I do lol hoep I am not alone on this or i amy be crazy. So you can go to Itunes store and search for this pod cast the talking reef and check it out. This is where some of my questions come form I figure even if I can not wirte into the show and ask hiom I can listen to the shows and bring my questions here to RC were the worlds most exp reefers hang out trying to share info amungs the selves while trying to help out noobs and self proclaimed aqutic experts that work at petco lol. Sorry could not resist it.
Thank you all again for your time to read and to answer what you could even if you just skimed I thank you for taking the time out to help me thanks again its even in my signature permantly and forever thanking all of you who take the time out to help this noobie. Thank you.
Look forward toi reading your respone on this and I hope it does not rub any one the wrong way I am just simply trying to learn and asking quesitons reading posts and gather information from where ever I can to do so. i am not setting up my tank until I have a firm grasp on whats going on or at least an exllaintation of what I am doing before I proced so I am trying to learn what I can now. Thank you Nate W
