Lumber Green vs Kiln Dried

[wooden_reefer]

In the past few years, or more than a decade, Home Depot and Lowes have been selling green limber.

I can still remember when almost all lumber at HD was kiln dried.

I think epoxy seals well even on green lumber and cures on it well too, as long as it is not really wet to touch. Sometimes it is at HD.

I must say I do not like green lumber since it tend to warp more than kiln dried.

I hope green lumber when sealed by epoxy is still stable. Do you have an opinion on this?

I use lumber for supportive frame members such as stand and trim on plywood tanks. I may spend more and use nice hardwood on trim of plywood tank.

I am talking generally related to larger tanks 150 gal plus at least.

 

[peppie]

Not sure what Big Box Store you are shopping at.
NONE of them sell GREEN Lumber.
They do sell Pressure Treated lumber.

"Green Lumber" is fresh cut

I would not use Wet lumber to build anything you want to stay the same size.

Wet or Green lumber should not be sealed and used on any furniture type project.

IMO dimensional lumber is not used to build a quality Aquarium stand.

Dimensional lumber, kiln dried, or air dried will move with the humidity in your home. Even more so when you put a tank of water in it. Unless you design your stand to accommodate for this movement, you could have major problems down the road.

If you want to build a quality, stable piece of furniture to set your tank on, use plywood.

 

[HV1990]

Take a look at rocket engineer's thread in the DIY portion.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Home Depot and Lowes in my area sell only green lumber.

If this is not acceptable one has to find kiln dried some where else.

Any more opinion?

Will green lumber be stable after sealing with epoxy?

 

[wooden_reefer]

The stamp GRN on lumber indicates Green, I believe, when "Kiln Dried" is not found.

 

[gone fishin]

Alot of places use the "Green" to mean it is sustainably harvested. A big deal to some people. I just find it hard to believe they are selling fresh cut lumber. this would cause all kinds of troubles down the road.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Alot of places use the "Green" to mean it is sustainably harvested. A big deal to some people. I just find it hard to believe they are selling fresh cut lumber. this would cause all kinds of troubles down the road.

The lumber stamped GRN at HD is wetter to the touch than previous kiln dried.

Does Green mean quite fresh cut?

Some lumber is air-dried.

At least one worker a HD said it is green. "Don't sell kiln-dried anymore" was what he said.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Have anyone here used HD lumber in SoCal in the previous several years?

Has any warped?

Did you seal with epoxy? I tend to seal all sizes and the end with epoxy.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Not sure what Big Box Store you are shopping at.
NONE of them sell GREEN Lumber.
They do sell Pressure Treated lumber.

"Green Lumber" is fresh cut

I would not use Wet lumber to build anything you want to stay the same size.

Wet or Green lumber should not be sealed and used on any furniture type project.

IMO dimensional lumber is not used to build a quality Aquarium stand.

Dimensional lumber, kiln dried, or air dried will move with the humidity in your home. Even more so when you put a tank of water in it. Unless you design your stand to accommodate for this movement, you could have major problems down the road.

If you want to build a quality, stable piece of furniture to set your tank on, use plywood.

I have two ways for my numerous tanks.

One way is to build platforms using the frame of my house and put the smaller tanks on such platform.

For larger tanks 200 gals plus, I use lumber and plywood as a free standing stands. I will use plywood for the sides and the back for strength, but the plywood is secured onto lumber frame.

For my next plywood tank, I plan to have legs built onto the sides of the tank and do without any stand. The legs will be glued onto the plywood sides and back and the bottom of the front.

 

[BigAl2007]

It's possible you're thinking down the wrong line. If it's "wet/moist" it's probably fresh from the "Treater" which is where it's treated for moisture resistance (probably ACQ depending on your area). Yes it looks somewhat "Green" in color and may be wet depending on how long it has been since "treated".

Green lumber in terms of sustainability will have no effect on stability of the product what so ever it just means it's "Eco Friendly" or at least harvested, machined, replanted and a sustainable manner. Usually "Green" lumber will be designated with FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) or SFI (Sustainable Forestry Initiative) and often times carry a slightly higher price tag.

 

[wooden_reefer]

It's possible you're thinking down the wrong line. If it's "wet/moist" it's probably fresh from the "Treater" which is where it's treated for moisture resistance (probably ACQ depending on your area). Yes it looks somewhat "Green" in color and may be wet depending on how long it has been since "treated".

Green lumber in terms of sustainability will have no effect on stability of the product what so ever it just means it's "Eco Friendly" or at least harvested, machined, replanted and a sustainable manner. Usually "Green" lumber will be designated with FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) or SFI (Sustainable Forestry Initiative) and often times carry a slightly higher price tag.

The way it is stated make me believe that GRN is not envirnmental green but moisture level green.

I hope this can be clarified.

 

[BigAl2007]

ooops DUPLICATE post... sorry

 

[BigAl2007]

DO you recall if it may be "S-GRN"? I work in the "Lumber Industry".

"S-GRN" (surfaced green) means that the moisture content is above 19%

 

[wooden_reefer]

DO you recall if it may be "S-GRN"? I work in the "Lumber Industry".

"S-GRN" (surfaced green) means that the moisture content is above 19%

I think this is what it says.

Do I need KD lumber even if I plan to epoxy it?



I need it to support 125 gal tanks. I make sure the span is short but warping would be bad.

 

[BigAl2007]

If it's S-GRN I would seek an alternate wood source. I personally like KD lumber and really like KDAT (Kiln Dried After Treating) for areas that may be exposed to moisture.

For integrity and stability I like to use Weyerhaeuser Framer Series® Lumber for all my personal projects (including the actual house). It's a little heavier than SPF lumber (it's Yellow Pine) but it's much more stable. Worth the extras IMHO.

 

[peppie]

Why do you need to use dimensional lumber to build a stand for a 125 gal tank??
Plywood will give you more room under the tank
Plywood is stronger
You use less lumber
Plywood is stable
Plywood "May" cost less

 

[wooden_reefer]

Why do you need to use dimensional lumber to build a stand for a 125 gal tank??
Plywood will give you more room under the tank
Plywood is stronger
You use less lumber
Plywood is stable
Plywood "May" cost less

For 125 gals I am using the frame of my house as the vertical members of my "stand". The lumber is the horizontal members.

The distance is about 12' 5 inches, just good for two 6 foot 125 gals side by side.

I will use 1/2 inch plywood planks, about 2' x 8', to bolster the studs so that, in addition to the sheet rock, there is a "box" effect to my house.

My larger 220 gal plus tanks have free standing stands. For these I use plywood mostly but to join plywood edges solid lumber is better for a stand that is to carry 3000 pounds even dead weight.

I have seen plywood edge to edge joint, but I do not like this type of joint for more than about 125 gal tank.

Tonight if I cut the green lumber or epoxy them it will be final. Even one other lumber yard states that KD has to be special ordered and I cannot pick, otherwise it also carries just green.

I have confirmed that green is moisture green, 19% or more moisture.

 

[sirreal63]

You do not want to epoxy lumber with a moisture content that has not reached equilibrium with the environment it is in. In most areas this will be 10-12% mc but may be less or more based on humidity. Typically wood that is green is not dried because it is a light wood that dries readily on it's own, cedar is a prime example, but in some parts of the country (mainly Northern California) it is not uncommon to find Hemlock, Larch or Fir left green or PAD, (partially air dried). There are a few other species that I don't remember, I have never traded in green lumber other than long length of Douglas Fir or Hem Fir. The shrinkage factors have been included in the design and you can expect the wood to move. This can work for a house, not an aquarium stand.

I would not use green lumber for building a stand, shrinkage is a bad thing for a stand. Dimensional stability is vital to a stand, you cannot engineer movement into the stand adequately, it doesn't work. You are much better off laminating plywood or using engineered lumber as Al suggests. Framing lumber in general is not the best thing to use in building a stand, but depending on the species it can work. Make the drive to find some KD SPF, it is light and strong and will reach EMC quickly in a home environment. If you refuse to use a dried wood, you can dry the green lumber yourself, attics typically work well, place 1" sticks between each layer of wood so it gets air circulation and place a fan or two blowing on them. It can take several months for the wood to reach EMC and may twist, warp or check while it is drying, which is what it will do under your aquarium as well as shrink if you build it with green lumber. Keep in mind that even if you seal it in epoxy, it will reach equilibrium with the environment, and will still shrink, you cannot stop that process.

Use the right wood.

FWIW I managed a sawmill and have been trading commodity forest products since the 80's.

 

[sirreal63]

You do not want to epoxy lumber with a moisture content that has not reached equilibrium with the environment it is in. In most areas this will be 10-12% mc but may be less or more based on humidity. Typically wood that is green is not dried because it is a light wood that dries readily on it's own, cedar is a prime example, but in some parts of the country (mainly Northern California) it is not uncommon to find Hemlock, Larch or Fir left green or PAD, (partially air dried). There are a few other species that I don't remember, I have never traded in green lumber other than long length of Douglas Fir or Hem Fir. The shrinkage factors have been included in the design and you can expect the wood to move. This can work for a house, not an aquarium stand.

I would not use green lumber for building a stand, shrinkage is a bad thing for a stand. Dimensional stability is vital to a stand, you cannot engineer movement into the stand adequately, it doesn't work. You are much better off laminating plywood or using engineered lumber as Al suggests. Framing lumber in general is not the best thing to use in building a stand, but depending on the species it can work. Make the drive to find some KD SPF, it is light and strong and will reach EMC quickly in a home environment. If you refuse to use a dried wood, you can dry the green lumber yourself, attics typically work well, place 1" sticks between each layer of wood so it gets air circulation and place a fan or two blowing on them. It can take several months for the wood to reach EMC and may twist, warp or check while it is drying, which is what it will do under your aquarium as well as shrink if you build it with green lumber. Keep in mind that even if you seal it in epoxy, it will reach equilibrium with the environment, and will still shrink, you cannot stop that process.

Use the right wood.

FWIW I managed a sawmill and have been trading commodity forest products since the 80's.

 

[BigAl2007]

Very well said Jack