Macro Algae display tank

djkms

djkms

Fish Freak
Hello macro algae experts I need your help. About 2 months ago I set up my 125 gallon aquarium (stats below in my sig). I want to have a DT which I have named "Coral Garden". Now I don't mean a coral display tank. i want more of a hybrid between a macro algae, lps, sps tank. I see so many tanks with beautiful displays of pretty much just coral. I saw a video on youtube of a awesome display refugium with many different types of macros, so I would like the best of both worlds, great macro's, great corals.

I have been reading as much as I can about having macro algae's and here is what I have gathered. Please let me know if I am on the right track here.

Benefits:
Greater diversity in my tank
Better refuge for the tank inhabitants
Higher oxygen levels during the day
Natural exportation of nutrients
Competing with nuisance algae

Drawbacks:
Chance of the macro going sexual which can wipe a tank
Possible of some macro's overrunning a tank

Challenges:
Keeping nutrient balance. Enough nutrients to feed the macro but not too much to stunt growth of the corals
Keeping the macros from going sexual
Keeping enough macros in the fuge to offset the CO2 buildup at night and minimizing PH swings

Ok now for my questions:

Macros going sexual:
Generally speaking how much time do I have to remove the macro if it is showing signs of going sexual?

Are there macros that don't really show signs and overnight can wipe my tank?

Caulerpa seems to be the biggest culprit of this, I would assume its a safe bet not to even add this to my tank?

Are there other bad macros which I should not get due to its higher rate of going sexual?

I have a Neptune Apex system which constantly monitors my PH and can send me alerts if things go out of whack. Which happens faster my PH dropping or the oxygen being stripped out of the water when a algae goes sexual? In other words will I have time to yank it out if I get a PH low alarm before all the oxygen is gone?

Neptune makes a dissolved oxygen probe. Does anyone know if this is a constant monitor like my PH and Temp? I would assume if I plan to have a lot of macros in my tank this investment would be well worth it for safety reasons?

Here is the info on it:
Oxyguard Dissolved Oxygen Probe
* 0 to 19.9 ppm.
* Lab quality probe w/10' cable.
* Temperature, Altitude, and Salinity Compensation.
* Minidin 6 Connector.

Nutrient control & filtration:

My nitrates & phosphates are undetectable now. I have chaeto (which I prune back once a week) and run a GFO reactor.

Do I need to take my GFO offline so there is enough nutrients in the tank for the macro to grow?

Will .01-.03 be enough phosphate in the system to allow the macro to thrive?

Will <2 Nitrates be enough?

What are your thoughts on the best way to balance this?

My bioload is really small right now. I only have 2 false percs at the moment but my stocking list consists of:
2 False Percula's (have)
2 Scarlet cleaner Shrimp
1 Fire Shrimp (have)
Orange Back Fairy Wrasse
Midnight/Black Nox angelfish (aware of the potential clam/coral nipping)
Dracula Goby
Helfrichi firefish
1 Male Maldives Lyretail Anthias
2 Female Lyretail Anthias
Red Mandarin
Yellowhead Jawfish

Will this work with a macro/coral tank hybrid?

Will this provide enough nutrients for a well planted tank?

I assume I need add the macro to the tank as the bioload increases so there is enough nutrients for it to live?

I did order a bag of Biopellets but have not put them online yet. I would assume the pellets would be a big no no for this system since it would out-compete the algae?

Macro Algae shopping list:

What do you recommend for algaes? So far I have only looked at reefcleaners.org. Thoughts on these types:
Flame Algae
Halimeda
Pencil cap
shaving brush
Red Titan Algae (bought a small piece already)

My substrate is only about 2" deep. Caribsea super reef substrate so i do understand the limitation with some of the planting types.

Good places to buy macro algae?

Other questions:

What would be the best macro to place in my fuge to offset the CO2 at night in the DT? I have chaeto now, will this be enough or should I look for other algaes and remove the chaeto?

Can the macro algae interfere with my corals or vise versa? I understand the algae possibly blocking the light for the corals or the corals blocking light but what other things do I need to worry about?

If the algae touches coral will the sting from the coral kill the algae?

Any other issues I should be concerned about?

Will this system be just too damn difficult and maybe I should just ditch this idea all together?


Sorry for such a long post, I just want to make sure I am on the right track and doing everything right going this route. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks!
 
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Sounds like a great idea if your willing to put a little extra work pruning. The caulerpa's that have the bad reps are the bubbles like racemosa. Not all of them are bad. My favorite is caulerpa prolifera. Its very easy to prune and has good nutrient uptake. I've never had it get out of control and it looks good. Your tank size will help if things get out of hand its big enough for a rabbit of some kind. I would keep the chaeto because its reliable and tough. To offset your concern with o2 and ph swings you could alternate light cycles between your display and refugium which is what i do. I'd leave the gfo on until you've got a good growth started. I would leave out the biopellets i've heard they are very good at removing what your algae will need. Coral and algae will compete for space and the algae will win the coral can sting it all day with no effect. Keep it pruned back it should be okay. I'm sure i missed some questions. Your fish choices are similar to mine you've got a couple of jumpers in the jawfish and the firefish and the nox i had was really shy. Put up some pics if you put this together.
 
Thanks for the reply. Thats good info to know about the Caulerpa as some of the different kinds are really beautiful.

I have no problems trimming back the macro, I rather enjoy doing my husbandry. I like being involved with my tank not just sitting back and watching it.

I do run my fuge light cycle now opposite of my tanks lights.

I also have 1/4" screen netting as my top to prevent the jumpers from carpet surfing.

I did call Neptune and they said their DO probe is a constant monitoring probe. Not sure this will be a necessity by any means but might be a good investment down the road. If my PH goes astray that would be a good enough indicator that something is wrong I think.

I will be buying a couple of small fans to run at night right over my DT to help remove some of the CO2 buildup at night.

I just got done reading this article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-01/sl/index.php
Good read btw, im working on this one next:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/sl/index.php

As soon as my tank starts looking good and put together I will post some pictures. I take photos of everything! Right now my nuisance algae is going away and coralline is starting to show up in a couple of spots.
 
+1 on Tom's comments plus a few added comments. If you purchase any of the calcerous aglae such as Halemdia make sure you dose calcium as this is needed for good health. Also make sure your lighting is adequate such as at least 2watts/gl. Better would be 3 to 3.5/gl which is what I run using MH and T5 lighting with 10K bulbs. Natural sunlight is 6500K so a little higher on artifical lighting I found works great and you should be able to grow some of the higher light demanding algae such as Saragassum and Ulva. Most of the "Grasses"-not true grasses need closer to 5 watts per gallon and at least a 4 inches bed as the roots are very large. I also dose weekly Iodine using Kent's brand for the red algae-a must if you want to maintain the deep red colors. For determining your fish load to plant biomass it will take some time to determine when you have achieved that perfect balance between the two. Good growth or the lack there of will be your first sign that nutrients are not high enough. Also remember that if you do not prune you will need to increase nutrients to support the ever growing plants. This will be a slow process you will need to monitor and learn. Again poor growth or death and color loss will indicate something is wrong. Also be careful of the fish you add. Tangs, Angels, Foxfaces/Rabbitfish are well known herbavoires and if large enough could eat an entire plant and quickly. Good sources to look at plants would be www.live-plants.com which is my favorite-great selection and prices plus outstanding customer service. Was on the phone last night with the owner Rich about an order I placed. Very pleased with them. There are other sites but I don't have experience with them. You can also check ebay there are a number of companys selling there two. Selection is not real good now as the season has ended for good sales and collection.
 
Good luck Kris. This is a less common part of the hobby but would suspect because many people are unaware of the plants available. A beautifully grown out tank with macro algae can easily mimic the beauty of a reef tank and is so much easier to do.
 
Look at my former tank. Halimeda does need lots of pruning:spin1:

picture.php


picture.php


I have lots of experience in keeping tanks that your interested in learning about. I'll try to answer some of your questions at least.
 
Its much different, in respect to the daily maintenance, selection of livestock, and the inner processes of a tank allowing macroalgae versus the "normally" seen sps dominated aquarium. I like to think of my aquariums as biotypes and try to model the tank how it would look and interact like in the ocean. Areas of the reef that harbor forms of macroalgae are different than the reef crest areas where large sps corals are known to thrive. Lagoons, back reefs and areas like this often have huge growths of Halimeda or seagrass. They also have a much higher population of lots of other reef inhabitants. There is much more happening in the lagoons than on the reef crests. Microalgae, copepods, bristleworms, sponges, clams, crabs, snails, and a huge population of bacteria.

By adding macroalgae, just the flux of lowering nutrients, it growing, then dying, and decomposing and eventually fueling bacteria and microalgae, creates a life making process that cycles over and over again. This in turn begins new cycles in every life form, which can process huge influxes of nutrients and huge population spikes. The macroalgae must be harvested regularly to tip the process towards production and not decomposition and erosion. This is obvious, but it gets to be a pain cause the algae grows faster than one can harvest.

I would start out with Halimeda. There are some species that adapt very well, grow fast and don't mind being trimmed. It needs calcium and alkalinity dosing, especially when you have a nice mat. It doesn't go sexual like caulerpa, when it dies it turns white and is mostly just CaCO3.

Caulerpa sp. is good for some things, but bad for a DT. If you ever get it make sure not to get Caulerpa racemosa, aka grape caulerpa; its the WORST! It is impossible to trim and grows relentlessly. Caulerpa mexicana, aka feather caulerpa, or Caulerpa prolifera are less invasive, if I can say that at all. Just use in your fuge if at all. When they "go sexual," that just means it dies fairly quickly, turns transparent and disintegrates, releasing all the bound up nutrients. This happens maybe twice a year and usually can be avoided without any problems.

Penicillus sp. is a nice macro. Requires a DSB. It forms a runner root, similar to seagrass, connecting each plant. The spines get everywhere though, and is moderately hard to care for long-term. Mostly CaCO3 so dose Ca Alk. Adding iron once a month will aid macro growth.

The pictures of my tank look clean, as the tank slowly got overgrown with Caulerpa racemosa and Halimeda. I recently moved my tank and I had so much microlife everywhere. Huge yellow sponges under all the rocks used to filtering all the phyto I added.

Corals you can add are zoos, mushrooms, xenia, leathers and soft corals will grow fast, lps like frogspawn, hammers, acans, blastos, favia. Adding sps is tricky just because its life depends on an external force, as in you, to save it from overgrowth. The more macro you have the less flow you will produce, cause large mats capture the flow and slow it down. This is bad for sps, and getting uneaten nutrients to the sump to get filtered.

Seagrass, like Thalassia sp. is better left for the better experienced. Just getting an undamaged rhizome is hard, planting and growing it is harder. It is pretty though. Plus it needs a dedicated tall height of your DT.

Udotea is reasonable, much like Penicillus. It is mostly CaCO3 so dose Ca and Alk.

I would use Chaeto in the fuge, if you don't want to use Caulerpa. You can even put Chaeto in the DT and pods will begin to grow in it.

Now about running GFO, you can and it might be a good idea. It will slow the macro growth but it will still grow. Don't add the BioPellets. They will out compete any macro any day. Caulerpa is the only macro that will chemically harm corals, especially acropora, montipora, other passive corals and even some leathers. It really harms stuff when it is trimmed and releases its juices. Halimeda and other CaCO3 based algae is no problem besides blocking light.
 
Thanks for the info Jonny. At this time I am running chaeto and GFO. I am hoping this will stunt the growth of the other macros I plan to add but not too much to kill it. I figure this will help with me having to prune and harvest less.

I will probably not add much if any caulerpa.

I do want to keep a wide variety of corals included SPS and will have to find that right balance not to let my macro effect my SPS's growth and survivability.

At this point I am adding macros real slow to see how they fare and learn how to provide the best possible conditions for all my inhabitants.

Thanks again for all the info!
 
jer77, I love your tank. It's inspirational. I've switched my tank from SPS and I'm planning to have it dominated by one large toadstool (which I'm hoping my clowns will use as a host), with some zoanthids and macros. I'd really like to get some C. ashmeadii or mexicana--what have your experiences with those been like?
 
velvetelvis said:
jer77, I love your tank. It's inspirational. I've switched my tank from SPS and I'm planning to have it dominated by one large toadstool (which I'm hoping my clowns will use as a host), with some zoanthids and macros. I'd really like to get some C. ashmeadii or mexicana--what have your experiences with those been like?
Click to expand...

Well any Caulerpa will eventually grow faster than you can trim it. It is fairly easy to trim though. The problem with it is its incredibly efficient at nutrient control. You might think this is good, it is if its confined to a refugium, but if in a DT it will grow into places impossible to trim, so it can release these nutrients later on or make it impossible to fully harvest the caulerpa and remove all the nutrients it absorbed. I like it in refugiums though. It doesn't sexually multiply nearly as often as everyone mentions, if ever. It doesn't harm corals through chemical warfare if kept in a refugium. And its nutrient removal is extraordinary. It likes to grow rhizomes or holdfasts into the sand or around rocks.
 
Jonny,

Your tank is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen shown in this forum IMO. I think the simplicity gives it a truly natural look as if you would see this in the ocean snorkeling on a reef.
 
I have just started planning a mixed macro/coral tank as well (with a few small fish) and am going to try running skimmerless.

djkms: I look forward to some pics of your tank :)

Jonny: Your tank looks great, and I totally agree with you on the mentality behind it. My whole idea is to try to create a more natural ecosystem with as much biodiversity as possible by incorporating macro in the display tank.
 
Very nice, that's a good looking tank :)

I am definitely hooked on the idea of macros in the DT, it just seems to add so much more to the overall look and feel. Still just ordering parts for my build, but slowly getting closer to the start...
 
I must confess, recently I have ignored my own advice on this thread. My newer tank has both GFO and biopellets and focused less on macro, but I still kept some halimeda in the DT. I wanted to add more sps so less macro was ideal. What I ended up creating was something out of balance, in flux and eventually had to crash. Biopellets will stop any macro growth along with micro too, but running out of $$ for it is not good. My tank became used to them and the encouraged crazy chemistry experiment it became. Now the halimeda I have is still not growing, but the microalgae growth is through the roof. Its time I go back to my prior advice, and screw the biopellets.
 
I am wondering if I should use GFO intermittently. My macro is getting way too efficient at removing nitrate I think. I have ramped up my feeding in hopes to add nitrate but its been reading 0 the last couple of weeks. With my nitrate being 0 I am noticing my phosphate creeping up. It usually hovers around .04 but then it went up to .06 then .07 - tested with low range phosphate Hanna checker. I am also contemplating dosing KNO3 if overfeeding cant keep a readable nitrate number. Even when my nitrate hovered around 5-10 my phosphate never dipped below .04.

I am aiming at a nitrate reading consistent at 5ppm and phosphate at .02 - so maybe run GFO for a few hours once a week? Thoughts?
 
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