MAg,Ca,Alk,Ph

azcatsfan

In Memoriam
I am new. I have a 130 gallon mixed reef setup. Around a 30 gallon sump I would guess. Tank has been setup for years before I got it. It was setup at my place the day after Christmas.
It was moved and the substrate was not replaced. One third of it thrown away and the rest rinsed well. I think. I did not know better . I pd for supposed professional help.
Anyway, the two clowns , chromis and cardinal fish that came with and are still alive. I killed purchased powder brown tang, and long tentacle purple . I had a mandrian get eaten by 3 foot long Oenone Fulgida worm Or at least part of him was . I caught the worm. Seemed to be the only one. Fish added seem to be thriving. Sail fin, some type of sand sifting Goby(midnight goby?), yellow wrase, cleaner shrimp. Among others(snails , crabs, ect.). I just wanted to paint a little picture.
So the deal is this. My Ca has been off the chart and is just now down to 560.
Mag is at 1360. My alk is low if I do not dose regular so I am. 150 ml a day just to maintain current level. I have been holding steady and raising it slowly. I want to drive it up to 11 dKH. I have made it up to 9 dKH over the past week. The worry is my Ph is between 7.65 and 7.8. Why? I am using Bulk reefs two part system (recipe #1). My frog spawn and Pagoda cup are doing awesome. My phosphate and nitrates and ect. do not seem to be an issue. My lights run from 11 am to 10 pm and my halide runs from 12 noon to 9 pm. I did have a sea lab #28 block in there , suggested by the same pro that moved tank and kept same substrate. I removed it a few days ago. Do you guys think if I keep dosing Alk and do 10% water change once a month that my PH will straighten out once my Ca finally gets in line. Or do I have a problem with nitrogen from old substrate leaching C02? Or something like that? I do have plenty of water break at the surface. I am not running any reactors. Just a protein skimmer. Carbon and GFO in nylon. I do have new substrate in sump when I did water change. I also running a light in sump with not chato but the stuff with the berrys on it. Sorry I am ignorant. That light kicks on the whole time the light on the canopy is off. Any thought on adding a bio enzyme to try to safely kick tank out of a nitrogen cycle. That worked well with fresh water,and the same company makes salt water enzyme. Thanks for the discussion . :uhoh3:
 
I used my ph probe and verify with lfs test and my api test kit always shows 7.8 at the most. Also tested with friends kit with same result. Have not tested for C02. Can you. C02 problem is an assumption I am working on. Old substrate causing exsussive nitrogen is a theroy based on discussion with many hobbyist. I just tested alk this am and it is 8.0 dKH and ca is 574. Did not test Mag today. It is always good or slightly high. Around 1360 a few days ago. salinity is 35ppt ( 1.026) . I dosed 500ml though a period of time yesterday. yesterday I showed 8.5 on alk in the morning before dosing. I feel it is a lot so I slowly drip in 250 and later on in evening 250 more. I have not set up dosing pumps yet until I get a handle on it. Was using the old substrate a big mistake.
? Can I do something to prove or disprove this theory? Also, I see some nice flat bubbles escaping from under the gravel at times.
 
I guess a tanks nitrogen cycle can cause c02. And I have been told I could run into same type problems with the old substrate. I was told re using it was a rookie mistake.
 
one more quick note. Previous tank owner said he never saw or had the PH tested over 8.0 for the whole time he had it set up.
 
I guess a tanks nitrogen cycle can cause c02. And I have been told I could run into same type problems with the old substrate. I was told re using it was a rookie mistake.

No, old media won't cause low pH. It might cause other problems, but not low pH.

FWIW, there are no other causes for low tank pH aside from high CO2 or low carbonate alkalinity (or both). :)
 
I used my ph probe and verify with lfs test and my api test kit always shows 7.8 at the most. Also tested with friends kit with same result. Have not tested for C02..


I would recalibrate the pH probe to be sure (kits are fairly unreliable for pH), but I show in the low pH article above how to diagnose the source of the excess CO2 (your tank water only, or also the air above the water) by aerating samples inside and out and monitoring pH. :)
 
Hand of appaluse for Randy always with the right answers. Anyways Randy why do you not recomend using enzymes. Is Ziovet bac enyzems. sorry to sidetrack your thread azcatsfan.
 
I'm not convinced adding enzymes accomplishes anything important in a reef tank.

That said, if someone described what it was really doing and showed some evidence, I might be convinced it is useful. :)
 
Thanks Randy. My PH is awaiting more cal fluid. I have tried the air pump trick and I may have better luck after I get the probe calibrated right. So can organic waster produce any c02? My ca is 550 and my alk is 8.8dKH and Mag is 1350. I am dosing way to much Alk supplement to keep it there. My ca was even higher and is coming down slowly.
 
Degradation of organics, whether waste by bacteria or inside of larger organisms by respiration will produce CO2. CO2 isn't, however, depleting the alkalinity.
 
Hi Randy, and anyone chiming in, I dropped my alk dosing by 40% and I am still holding good 160 ppm/ 9dKH or so... My ph shows 7.77 after calibration. Long story short. Went up to 8.12 after getting the air pump experiment( outside worked, inside no change). So apparently I have a c02 filled room. Also my ca is still over 500 but came down to 525. It has slowly been coming down. The guy before me( got tank second hand) overdosed this tank with Ca. I am sure of that. I have done 10% water change every two weeks. All my corals and critters seem very happy too. Thanks for your awesome feedback and very cool articles I have read. You have taught me a great deal And I am thankful. Any ideas on the use of soda lime filter on my protein shimmer air inlet. ??? Keeping windows open is not going to be much of an option. I can try that now short term though. Thanks again..
 
Some salt mixes are 500+ ppm, so he might just have been using such a salt mix.

A CO2 scrubber may be effective enough for you (or not). Limewater is generlly my preferred option if fresh air isn't a good option. :)
 
Limewater? How? Will it jive with my alk dosing or do I have to scrap my current dosing method? Sorry. I a have heard of guys adding it to kalkwasser. But I have no clue. Thanks for your help.
 
Read up on limewater/kalkwasser. It may be all you need to supplement calcium and alkalinity:

This thread has more
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2140596

and this article has all the gory details:


What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm


and this may help:

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 2: What Chemicals Must be Supplemented
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

The "How To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 3: pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php
 
Thanks for the good info. Ph is better than ever right now that I have been airing out the house. I am going to try a co2 scrubber first. I invested in a two part already. But I will read up. And I am not afraid to spend money and scrap my whole top off system I have in place .And a kalk system going. But it is always fun. Thank you for taking the time. On a side note. The guy before me was dosing with Ca Cl 2 only. I had the white flaky stuff for a little while also. I believe that may have been related to his over dosing of Ca?? It seems like the tank is on a road to recovery.
 
Sounds good. :)


FWIW, precipitation of calcium carbonate takes both calcium and alkalinity, so overdosing of calcium alone without any alkalinity dosing won't cause it. 550 ppm calcium isn't enough to cause problems, generally.
 
Thanks . The ca was much higher. And in the beginning I over dosed the alk as well before I got a little smarter. Thanks again. Like you had stated in an article. I tryed to use a ph buffer and thats where it got me. Solving the heart of the problem , even if it takes time seems to be the best way to go.
 
Hand of appaluse for Randy always with the right answers. Anyways Randy why do you not recomend using enzymes. Is Ziovet bac enyzems. sorry to sidetrack your thread azcatsfan.

Sorry , missed this. Thanks! :)

I just do not see what enzymes are supposed to accomplish. :)
 
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