MAG too high!!
- Thread starter jbarone
- Start date
BONDQ
Premium Member
I'd be more concerned about high sulfates during an over-dosage of Magnesium, that the fact that the Magnesium is high.
Water changes are suggested if sulfates are too high, such as wehn using Epsom salts to raise Magnesium, but there are sulfates in other mixes too, just in lower percentage.
Just a thought.
Water changes are suggested if sulfates are too high, such as wehn using Epsom salts to raise Magnesium, but there are sulfates in other mixes too, just in lower percentage.
Just a thought.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#23
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php
BONDQ
I did not consider the source of the Mg. Certainly if you dose Mg as MgSO4 (Epsom salts) only, and not a more balanced addition such as Randy's part 3A (5 parts MgCl2 3 parts MgSO4), SO4 will rise.
I am more intrigued by "sulfate toxicity". What are it's effects and manifestations?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php
BONDQ
I did not consider the source of the Mg. Certainly if you dose Mg as MgSO4 (Epsom salts) only, and not a more balanced addition such as Randy's part 3A (5 parts MgCl2 3 parts MgSO4), SO4 will rise.
I am more intrigued by "sulfate toxicity". What are it's effects and manifestations?
BONDQ
Premium Member
I've not tested high sulfate effects on marine life.
I'm not sure if anyone knows if higher than normal sulfates are in fact toxic in our tanks, but an imbalance in chemicals is never a good thing.
Some believe that high sulfates can cause changes in organic consumption, this could imbalance the nitrogen load of the tank. In other words, one thing has affected another, thereby causing a problem.
"jbarone" doesn't say how he boosted Magnesium, but in Epsom salts sulfates are roughly 4:1 to magnesium by weight, I believe. Other mixes are different, of course.
Assuming he did use Epsom salts, then this means that if he's approximately 100ppm too high in magnesium (currently at 1525ppm, 1425ppm being more ideal), that he's added greater than 400ppm sulfate. (..and this only accounts for the amount he's over, not the total sulfate addition)
One assumes that when he added the suppliment, that he was lower than 1425ppm magnesium to begin with (otherwise why would he add magnesium?), so the sulfate addition is likely much higher.
We also do not know what his starting magnesium was, and if this was done all at once or in steps, or if any water changes have been conducted over the course of magnesium additions.
Given the information at hand, we only know that his magnesium is higher than normal.
A water change, in this situation, is simply a cautious approach.
I'm not sure if anyone knows if higher than normal sulfates are in fact toxic in our tanks, but an imbalance in chemicals is never a good thing.
Some believe that high sulfates can cause changes in organic consumption, this could imbalance the nitrogen load of the tank. In other words, one thing has affected another, thereby causing a problem.
"jbarone" doesn't say how he boosted Magnesium, but in Epsom salts sulfates are roughly 4:1 to magnesium by weight, I believe. Other mixes are different, of course.
Assuming he did use Epsom salts, then this means that if he's approximately 100ppm too high in magnesium (currently at 1525ppm, 1425ppm being more ideal), that he's added greater than 400ppm sulfate. (..and this only accounts for the amount he's over, not the total sulfate addition)
One assumes that when he added the suppliment, that he was lower than 1425ppm magnesium to begin with (otherwise why would he add magnesium?), so the sulfate addition is likely much higher.
We also do not know what his starting magnesium was, and if this was done all at once or in steps, or if any water changes have been conducted over the course of magnesium additions.
Given the information at hand, we only know that his magnesium is higher than normal.
A water change, in this situation, is simply a cautious approach.
OK the whole story. I was low on Mg, 960 to be exact. I started using Kent Tech M to raise it. This was getting to be expensive so I switched to Epsom salts. I raised the Mg to 1300 over the course of a week. No here comes the problem, I mixed reagents from two different Salifert kits. When I read that this was not to be done I used the reagents all from the same batch. Now I see that I'm at 1525. Today I changed 15 gallons out. I'm at 1500.
Very NOOB mistake. I'm trying to learn.
Very NOOB mistake. I'm trying to learn.
Last edited:
Billybeau1
Premium Member
jb, the most important question is....... how does your tank look ? If everything is cool, then don't sweat it and let it fall. If things aren't looking so good, then, water changes are in order. 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9937394#post9937394 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
jb, the most important question is....... how does your tank look ? If everything is cool, then don't sweat it and let it fall. If things aren't looking so good, then, water changes are in order.
First I'd like to thank everyone for helping.
Billybeau1,
I spent some time looking back through my logs and about 4 days after the last dose of Epsom salts I lost a Cardinal fish. He stopped eating for 3 days and died. My 2 Clowns, 1 Six Line, Serpant Star, Cleaner shrimp, and all the snails and hermits are doing great. They are eating well and have shown no signs of stress. All corals are great except for a Colt coral. It has shrunk, has not extended it's polyps in 4 days and looks wet. This began last Thursday, the same day the Cardinal died. I have a bunch of Zoas, Mushrooms, Hammer, Frogspawn, Kenya, Devils Hand, a Green Sinularia, and 1 SPS that all look fantastic.
Last Wednesday I started running two cups of carbon through a canister filter. This I have stopped for the time being. I had been running carbon on a HOB filter for a long time before that. Not two cups though.
Tank info:
55g display with 80lbs of LR and 40lbs LS. 4 Seio 620's
30g sump with 25lbs LR, 20lbs LS, Cheato, and a MAG 9
Parameters as of yesterday.
Ammo 0
Nitrite <1
Nitrate <3
Phos 0 which I doubt
Alk 9.6
PH 8.23
Temp 77.6
SG 1.0255
calc 390
mg 1500
All tests are done with Salifert kits except for the PH, I use a Pinpoint monitor and for SG I use a refractometer.
With the exception of the Colt and the Cardinal. Tank looks good.
Thanks,
JB
JB
The thing that pops off the most to me is the low sg. Presuming it is calibrated with 35 salinity seawater, there doesn't appear to be any advantage to keeping salinity/sg lower than what is found in average seawater...salinity 35/sg 1.0264. Also raising the salinity, in your case, will drop your Mg and Ca. Billybeau could tell you a bit more regarding salinity and fish.
my 2 cents
The thing that pops off the most to me is the low sg. Presuming it is calibrated with 35 salinity seawater, there doesn't appear to be any advantage to keeping salinity/sg lower than what is found in average seawater...salinity 35/sg 1.0264. Also raising the salinity, in your case, will drop your Mg and Ca. Billybeau could tell you a bit more regarding salinity and fish.
my 2 cents
Billybeau1
Premium Member
Many reefers have successful tanks at 1.025. I doubt thats the issue here.
Lots of possiblities here. Could have been just a coincidence, could have been the epson (unlikely) but possible.
If everything else is looking good, I would bump that calcium up to about 420 and get back to running carbon 24/7. Keep your eye on your alk and don't let it fall below 7 dkh. The mag will drop slowly but surely.
How is your skimmer functioning ?
Lots of possiblities here. Could have been just a coincidence, could have been the epson (unlikely) but possible.
If everything else is looking good, I would bump that calcium up to about 420 and get back to running carbon 24/7. Keep your eye on your alk and don't let it fall below 7 dkh. The mag will drop slowly but surely.
How is your skimmer functioning ?
Billybeau1
Premium Member
:thumbsup:
I thought I'd post an update.
The second WC on Tuesday lowered my Mg to 1410. I slowly raised my Ca to 420. Alk has dropped .9 from 9.6 to 8.7, and PH is up slightly from 8.29 to 8.37
The Colt coral has come back and looks fantastic. It shed big time then opened up nicely. All the other corals and fish look great as well.
I'm not sure what could have caused the death of the Cardinal fish though.
Any suggestions about the low Alk or should I expect it to stabilize?
The second WC on Tuesday lowered my Mg to 1410. I slowly raised my Ca to 420. Alk has dropped .9 from 9.6 to 8.7, and PH is up slightly from 8.29 to 8.37
The Colt coral has come back and looks fantastic. It shed big time then opened up nicely. All the other corals and fish look great as well.
I'm not sure what could have caused the death of the Cardinal fish though.
Any suggestions about the low Alk or should I expect it to stabilize?
Billybeau1
Premium Member
Wonderful. It's not unusual for the alk to drop a litttle. 8.7 is almost in the middle of the recommended range.
If it drops below 8 though, I would bump it up with a little baking soda mixed in fresh water. jd's calculator tells how much arm & hammer to use.
If it drops below 8 though, I would bump it up with a little baking soda mixed in fresh water. jd's calculator tells how much arm & hammer to use.
