Man warns pet owners after fish tank releases 'second deadliest' poison

[banthonyb71]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...-poison-hospitalizes-10/ar-AAvwv3t?li=BBnbfcL

Anybody else see this story? I didn't know palytoxin could have such an effect by being released into the air. Even the dogs got sick.

Is their any false info given here?

I noticed that he described Pulsating Xenia as the culprit for the toxin. Is this true? What other corals besides Palys/zoas release this toxin in such a manner?

 

[icc2515]

That's weird. I pull that $%&$# pulsing Xenia out of my tank by the cup full. I have scrubbed it off of rocks with a wire brush. Never had a problem. Maybe I should be more careful. Now palys and zoas, I don't mess with those ever.

I remember when I was first starting out, I thought that the pulsing xenia was the coolest coral out there.

 

[needyreefer]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...-poison-hospitalizes-10/ar-AAvwv3t?li=BBnbfcL



Anybody else see this story? I didn't know palytoxin could have such an effect by being released into the air. Even the dogs got sick.



Is their any false info given here?



I noticed that he described Pulsating Xenia as the culprit for the toxin. Is this true? What other corals besides Palys/zoas release this toxin in such a manner?

I read the same article and came here to see if anyone else noticed the xenia thing. That has to be a mistake right?


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[MrSandman]

Must be a mistake. In all of the years of reefing I've never heard of Xenia releasing a palytoxin. He must have disturbed a palythoa or zoanthid and didn't realize it. I hope they get this right before Xenia gets a bad rap.

 

[banthonyb71]

I remember when I was first starting out, I thought that the pulsing xenia was the coolest coral out there.

lol. Ditto

 

[banthonyb71]

Must be a mistake. In all of the years of reefing I've never heard of Xenia releasing a palytoxin. He must have disturbed a palythoa or zoanthid and didn't realize it. I hope they get this right before Xenia gets a bad rap.

Yeah, I agree. It seems every article I've found on the story contains the same error.

 

[dnguyen1]

Same article here http://www.foxnews.com/health/2018/...-second-deadliest-poison-hospitalizes-10.html so is fragging of any of these corals really a bad idea??


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[swhobbie1]

Xenia. Would like to see an update on this. I’m thinking Paly mucus got on the Xenia or something. I’ve had Xenia grow all over the glass etc and pulled it out although I always wear gloves as you never know what is on rock or in the water Or what you may be allergic to IMO. Paly and zoo just don’t enter my tank as I learned years ago $&&&& happens and not worth the danger for me to keep them. What a nightmare story

 

[aznflyfisherman]

Maybe cause he scrub the xenia?

 

[FoxFace Fish]

i do not believe Xenia is to blame. Mainly because my dog ate a nice sized frag one day XD also because Zoas and Xenia are not in the same order and if I remember the order Zoantharia is the only place were palytoxin is synthesized in nature (correct me if wrong)

 

[JZinCO]

Copied from another thread:

You're not going to find a source that directly says Xenia does not contain palytoxin (dbl neg!), because no one has ever suggested that Xenia does. But some careful reading should reassure you:
E.g. from Pelin et al. (2016) Marine Drugs 14(2)
"Among the different species of decorative soft corals, such as Sarcophyton, Sinularia, Nephthya, Cladiella, Xenia, Palythoa, and Zoanthus species [76,77], those belonging to the last two genera are widely used due to their colorful and ornamental features [55,78]. The latter are known to accumulate PLTX [2,54] and/or its analogs, such as 42S-OH-50S-PLTX isolated from P. toxica [14], 42S-OH-50R-PLTX identified in P. tuberculosa [15], and deoxy-PLTX isolated from P. heliodiscus [55]."

The authors list all those genera and specifically calling out the two zoanthid genera as generating palytoxins. Consider the counterfactual; if Xenia does produce palytoxin and is known in the research community, the authors would likely have included it in with their discussion with zoanthids.

By the way, the article is good, even if you don't know O-chem. http://www.mdpi.com/1660-3397/14/2/33/htm

 

[JZinCO]

if I remember the order Zoantharia is the only place were palytoxin is synthesized in nature (correct me if wrong)

Dino's as well. Palytoxin also bioaccumulates so fish can contain high levels. I'm missing some other sources as well..

 

[FoxFace Fish]

hmmm I did not know dinos too I just thought it was DinoToxin (original name huh) which is a blanket term but I never remember seeing palytoxin I could swear only the zoantheria order is the only naturally synthesizing source.

 

[MrGuy]

My wife sent me the story and I couldn't believe it- I'd never heard anyone ever describe pulsing xenia as dangerous to us. The lack of any actual science in that article is suspicious. I don't know much, but I tend to assume it's false unless I see someone with actual scientific degrees in marine biology and not a guy who looks like he works at a vape shop.

 

[Crooked Reef]

I read a couple of different articles on this. One stated that four out of the ten people that were taken to the hospital and treated were firefighters. They didn’t get called until the next day. I’d bet there is something else in the house that caused this reaction or he boiled the rock and aerosolized the toxin. Even if he brushed vigorously and sprayed it everywhere it should have settled and dried in the amount of time the family slept and figured out what they believed caused it. Plus there were no tests done. This guy states it was palytoxin from Xenia. Other than symptoms there is no scientific data provided that states this is in fact palytoxin. It may be something else from the tank or some other biological/gas factor in the residence.

 

[Joe0813]

Guess I should be careful messing with mine

 

[JZinCO]

hmmm I did not know dinos too I just thought it was DinoToxin (original name huh) which is a blanket term but I never remember seeing palytoxin I could swear only the zoantheria order is the only naturally synthesizing source.

Yeah. A little more from that article:"At the beginning of 1960s, Prof. Helfrich discovered the exact location of this place, as well as the "œtoxic algae", found to be a soft coral belonging to the genus Palythoa (P. toxica). Thus, the toxin identified in this zoanthid ten years later by Prof. Scheuer was called palytoxin [1]....
...the interconnections between PLTX and soft corals have progressively lost their strength since the toxin and a series of its analogs have been subsequently identified in other marine organisms, phylogenetically very different from cnidaria, such as dinoflagellates, cyanobacteria, and edible vertebrates and invertebrates...
...To explain PLTX's presence in phylogenetically-different species, some authors proposed bacteria as producing organisms and a possible common source of these toxins. With this respect, Frolova et al. [8], using anti-PLTX antibodies, detected PLTX-like compounds in Gram-negative Aeromonas sp. and Vibrio sp. bacteria. Similarly, bacteria isolated from Palythoa caribaeorum were found to display a PLTX-like hemolytic activity [9]. In addition, PLTX and 42-hydroxy-PLTX were isolated from marine Trichodesmium spp. cyanobacteria [10]. However, a clear definition of the actual producing organism of PLTX is still a matter of debate."
Bolded for emphasis.

 

[MuShu]

I'm guessing that it has more to do with him scrubbing the rock out of water than the xenia. Newbies with no coral on their rock who scrub it outside of the tank have had palytoxin poisoning.

 

[banthonyb71]

I read a couple of different articles on this. One stated that four out of the ten people that were taken to the hospital and treated were firefighters. They didn't get called until the next day. I'd bet there is something else in the house that caused this reaction or he boiled the rock and aerosolized the toxin. Even if he brushed vigorously and sprayed it everywhere it should have settled and dried in the amount of time the family slept and figured out what they believed caused it.

I'm with you on this one. Would it really be that strong that it would make the whole family sick and the arriving fire fighters to where they would have to remove the tank and quarantine the entire house?

I'm guessing that it has more to do with him scrubbing the rock out of water than the xenia. Newbies with no coral on their rock who scrub it outside of the tank have had palytoxin poisoning.

True but the thing is, if he is a newbie, than that means he more than likely had no clue what palytoxin even was. I'm sure the responders didn't either. Which means someone with at least basic knowledge of aquarium reef biology, led him to believe that Xenia was the culprit.

 

[Timfish]

I want to start off by reiterating the importance of personal safety when dealing with our tank inhabitants. Palytoxin is a VERY STABLE toxin and is heat tolerant. NEVER HEAT UP ANY THING FROM AN AQUARIUM!!!!! When aquarists talk about "cooking" live rock they do not mean it literally! It's just jargon referring to quarantining and "cycling". Additionally be very careful when drilling or cutting corals or rock to minimize aerosolizing palytoxin.

Now on to my thoughts, note the phrase "power wash" a little way into the story. No further details are given but seems like some method was used that did a decent job of creating a palytoxin laden mist. To help put some of the hype in perspective people do die from palytoxin every year but it's from eating seafood. (How often do we hear about that?)

The FDA published a paper that looked at different zoas/palies and the majority didn't have much or any at all. The paper does have pictures and the palies in question had a mottled pattern consistant with the several types of "trash" pallies floating around. What I've seen in my tanks which has motivated me to avoid the "Texas Trash" and blue/green "trash" varieties is a similarity to the CDC pictures and seeing aiptaisa eating filefish avoid the "trash" types while chomping away on more colorful zoas (much to my dismay!). This paper looked at multiple species of corals and fish and found palytoxin levels higher in Sarcophyton (toadstool, leather), Sinularia (leather, soft) and gorgonian (GSP) species than in Palythoa species. (One has to wonder why we're not seeing stories about cutting up leather corals.) Additionally palytoxin is not made by pallies but by a dinoflagellate and/or bacteria and potentially can be found pretty much anywhere.