I'm in the process of rebuilding my reef completely, and will need to temporarily house my mangrove plant for about a month. Are there any temperature requirements for mangroves? Our house is kept around 60 degrees. Also, I have a window where I keep some other plants growing, will this be sufficient lighting? Do the mangroves need water motion, or can they be kept in a mason jar filled with salt water? Any ideas would be great appreciated! (All my other tanks have overhead flourecents, which would be way too close to the mangrove leaves) Thanks!
Mangrove Temp Housing Question
- Thread starter drwonga
- Start date
The_Nexis_One
New member
Hrm well, I've moved my Mangroves before, but I didn't have them out of the system for more than about 8 hours.
IMHO (and I'm not a Mangrove expert):
They should be fine if you follow some basic rules of thumb.
1) Disturb the roots as little as possible. This means keeping any sand/dirt/etc that is contacting the roots if at all possible. Be especially carefull to not damage the roots or the tiny hairs that protrude from them. If you can keep the Mangrove 'in the sand' as much as possible, as in using a plastic trowel or sheet to lift the plant and the substrate along with it, you'll be much better off.
2) Maintain similiar lighting or slightly less strong. Most plants will go into shock if you increase or reduce their lights sufficiantly over a short period of time. If you have it under X lighting now, you should keep it under X lighting in temp storage. That said, most plants will take better to short term reductions than short term increases. Going with minimal lighting for a couple of weeks might be fine where as doubling the light immediately might cause shock. Long term (more than a couple weeks) without sufficiant lights may cause shock or death depending on the plant.
3) Temperature is not critical assuming you don't go to extremes. Obviously, the theme here is to keep the same or similiar environment - but if the temp drops 5 or 10 degrees over the course of a couple days, , it should still be fine and not go into shock.
4) Lastly, resist the urge to trim, root prune, or feed the plant while it's in the temperary environment. You want to minimize the 'changes' that the plant see.
When plants go into shock, they tend to drop all or most of their leaves or simply stop growing. Sometimes they come out of this and continue where they left off, but in severe cases of shock, they drop their leaves and die soon after.
As far as water movement. I don't think it's so much a question of the plant as it is the substrate. If you have sand that it is rooted in or If the water 'is' the substrate, you will probably want some water movement or at least water changes to keep it from stagnating.
How small are the Mangroves? Lot's of leaves or just a couple?
IME smaller Mangroves are more sensitive to changes.
You might move the mangroves into your temperary containers and keep them in the current location for a week or so to reduce the quantity of changes on the actual tank breakdown day.
Best of luck,
John.
IMHO (and I'm not a Mangrove expert):
They should be fine if you follow some basic rules of thumb.
1) Disturb the roots as little as possible. This means keeping any sand/dirt/etc that is contacting the roots if at all possible. Be especially carefull to not damage the roots or the tiny hairs that protrude from them. If you can keep the Mangrove 'in the sand' as much as possible, as in using a plastic trowel or sheet to lift the plant and the substrate along with it, you'll be much better off.
2) Maintain similiar lighting or slightly less strong. Most plants will go into shock if you increase or reduce their lights sufficiantly over a short period of time. If you have it under X lighting now, you should keep it under X lighting in temp storage. That said, most plants will take better to short term reductions than short term increases. Going with minimal lighting for a couple of weeks might be fine where as doubling the light immediately might cause shock. Long term (more than a couple weeks) without sufficiant lights may cause shock or death depending on the plant.
3) Temperature is not critical assuming you don't go to extremes. Obviously, the theme here is to keep the same or similiar environment - but if the temp drops 5 or 10 degrees over the course of a couple days, , it should still be fine and not go into shock.
4) Lastly, resist the urge to trim, root prune, or feed the plant while it's in the temperary environment. You want to minimize the 'changes' that the plant see.
When plants go into shock, they tend to drop all or most of their leaves or simply stop growing. Sometimes they come out of this and continue where they left off, but in severe cases of shock, they drop their leaves and die soon after.
As far as water movement. I don't think it's so much a question of the plant as it is the substrate. If you have sand that it is rooted in or If the water 'is' the substrate, you will probably want some water movement or at least water changes to keep it from stagnating.
How small are the Mangroves? Lot's of leaves or just a couple?
IME smaller Mangroves are more sensitive to changes.
You might move the mangroves into your temperary containers and keep them in the current location for a week or so to reduce the quantity of changes on the actual tank breakdown day.
Best of luck,
John.
John,
Thanks for the quick reply. Right now it's a rather small propagule, its about 12" long, a couple of leaves, and some decent roots. I've kept it in water for the most part, not planted into any substrate-too small for that right now. The big thing for me right now, seems to be the temperature. I've already removed most of the stuff in my tank, so I'll just slowly start dropping the temp until it's low enough for me to move it to a smaller, temp tank. Any other suggestions?
Thanks for the quick reply. Right now it's a rather small propagule, its about 12" long, a couple of leaves, and some decent roots. I've kept it in water for the most part, not planted into any substrate-too small for that right now. The big thing for me right now, seems to be the temperature. I've already removed most of the stuff in my tank, so I'll just slowly start dropping the temp until it's low enough for me to move it to a smaller, temp tank. Any other suggestions?
The_Nexis_One
New member
Sounds great. If it's used to a 'water substrate' then just keep it that way and keep your water quality within normal ranges in the temp tank - shouldn't have to worry too much, but again, you don't want your Alk to sky-rocket, Ca to crash and/or have huge pH Swings or something like that - make sure that your Salinity, temp, pH, Ca/Alk,etc. are all basicaly stable. Maybe change 10-20% of the water every week or 10 days to keep things happy... Stable and gradule is the name of the game 
And once you get your setup going again - do consider putting those roots in some sand. Growth will be greatly accelerated IME.
I start my propagules floating. I tend to get the cheapo propagules with no roots/leaves and poke them through a 3"x3" styrofoam sheet, let them float until they start dropping long roots (not the short fuzzy ones), then I fill a mason jar/acrylic box with sand from the DSB (~2" as if it were a DSB) and set the plants roots on this. It of course is raised high enough to keep the top of the propogule out of the water. This seems to really spur on the root production as the seed "thinks" it's found a place to grow. Likewise, once it has a healthy root ball, and a percieved location to live, it'll start popping out leaves. The secret to a nice root ball is to gently pull the plant back up out of the sand every day or so to keep it from making any headway into this temp DSB. Once the roots are really growing, the hard top will come loose and the leaves will begin to grow out. My propagules sitting on the sand jar usually tip over a couple of times and float around the tank on their side, this has never seemed to hurt anything.
I figured out the "roots in sand' accidentally while floating my propagules. It seemed that they would stall out as they were growing roots. One of my floaters 'landed' on a chunk of LR and within a few weeks it had made noticable headway over the other Propagules in root production. ...Now, they all get the sand treatment.
Once the roots are long enough to keep the propagule tip out of the water, I use Egg-grate wedged between front and back glass at water level with the propagule through one of the holes and the roots resting on the tanks DSB. When the Mangrove is stable enough to stand on it's own, I remove/cut away the egg grate and away it goes. It'll go through phases of leaf production and then root production. If you are after a healthy exposed root structure as I was (for my eel to play in) I found that by pointing a powerhead at the trunk of the Mangrove causing a gentle wiggle/movement in the plant body will usually make the plant drop a banyon (root from the side of the trunk) down into the DSB to stabilize itself. Once the root is in the DSB, it's time to move the Powerhead
Also, when it comes to pruning. Don't be afraid. Keep that puppy trimmed back as they will usually send out a healthy quantity of new buds. More if you trim them. I let mine grow straight up to the overall height I wanted (about 17"), then trimmed it back about 7". It's important to keep at least a couple of healthy leaves on any given branch that you wish to keep and to trim it near, but not at any leaf/branch you with to keep (since it'll usually die back to the last available 'node' on the stem). At each 'node' closest to the point you cut, the plant will usually send out at least 2 more buds (along with other locations around the plant as normal growth). These two will shoot out as a branch with sets of leaves. I usually let them go to the edge of the shape I'm looking for and then cut them back to just above the first set of leaves, the process repeats with the plant sending out another set of branches from near this cut...
From this I ended up with a 18" tall plant that has a nice large (growing in girth) trunk and a semi round 9" head of leaves/branches. I've given away several of these puppies as they grow to others who want to get started with Mangroves. At this point I have one nice mature Mangrove and one that is in the process of shooting out leaves. The propagule mate to this one (got a pair as the last time) died. I'm not sure if this was just a statistcial death - or if it might have done better if it was dropping roots into sand.
IME, unrooted/unleafed propagules have a 50% success rate. I'll probably give up on the cheapo's and start buying mine with leaves and roots already - it saves you a good 3 months anyway.
But then again... I'm anal about my plants - this comes from training Bonsai for a few years before I got into Reefing.
Hopefully we can get some Mangrove Experts in here to post some of their info too. I hope we get some other people's experiances as well.
Best of luck
John.
And once you get your setup going again - do consider putting those roots in some sand. Growth will be greatly accelerated IME.
I start my propagules floating. I tend to get the cheapo propagules with no roots/leaves and poke them through a 3"x3" styrofoam sheet, let them float until they start dropping long roots (not the short fuzzy ones), then I fill a mason jar/acrylic box with sand from the DSB (~2" as if it were a DSB) and set the plants roots on this. It of course is raised high enough to keep the top of the propogule out of the water. This seems to really spur on the root production as the seed "thinks" it's found a place to grow. Likewise, once it has a healthy root ball, and a percieved location to live, it'll start popping out leaves. The secret to a nice root ball is to gently pull the plant back up out of the sand every day or so to keep it from making any headway into this temp DSB. Once the roots are really growing, the hard top will come loose and the leaves will begin to grow out. My propagules sitting on the sand jar usually tip over a couple of times and float around the tank on their side, this has never seemed to hurt anything.
I figured out the "roots in sand' accidentally while floating my propagules. It seemed that they would stall out as they were growing roots. One of my floaters 'landed' on a chunk of LR and within a few weeks it had made noticable headway over the other Propagules in root production. ...Now, they all get the sand treatment.
Once the roots are long enough to keep the propagule tip out of the water, I use Egg-grate wedged between front and back glass at water level with the propagule through one of the holes and the roots resting on the tanks DSB. When the Mangrove is stable enough to stand on it's own, I remove/cut away the egg grate and away it goes. It'll go through phases of leaf production and then root production. If you are after a healthy exposed root structure as I was (for my eel to play in) I found that by pointing a powerhead at the trunk of the Mangrove causing a gentle wiggle/movement in the plant body will usually make the plant drop a banyon (root from the side of the trunk) down into the DSB to stabilize itself. Once the root is in the DSB, it's time to move the Powerhead
Also, when it comes to pruning. Don't be afraid. Keep that puppy trimmed back as they will usually send out a healthy quantity of new buds. More if you trim them. I let mine grow straight up to the overall height I wanted (about 17"), then trimmed it back about 7". It's important to keep at least a couple of healthy leaves on any given branch that you wish to keep and to trim it near, but not at any leaf/branch you with to keep (since it'll usually die back to the last available 'node' on the stem). At each 'node' closest to the point you cut, the plant will usually send out at least 2 more buds (along with other locations around the plant as normal growth). These two will shoot out as a branch with sets of leaves. I usually let them go to the edge of the shape I'm looking for and then cut them back to just above the first set of leaves, the process repeats with the plant sending out another set of branches from near this cut...
From this I ended up with a 18" tall plant that has a nice large (growing in girth) trunk and a semi round 9" head of leaves/branches. I've given away several of these puppies as they grow to others who want to get started with Mangroves. At this point I have one nice mature Mangrove and one that is in the process of shooting out leaves. The propagule mate to this one (got a pair as the last time) died. I'm not sure if this was just a statistcial death - or if it might have done better if it was dropping roots into sand.
IME, unrooted/unleafed propagules have a 50% success rate. I'll probably give up on the cheapo's and start buying mine with leaves and roots already - it saves you a good 3 months anyway.
But then again... I'm anal about my plants - this comes from training Bonsai for a few years before I got into Reefing.
Hopefully we can get some Mangrove Experts in here to post some of their info too. I hope we get some other people's experiances as well.
Best of luck
John.
Triterium
New member
John, try www.banana-tree.com. I have nearly 100% success with their plants. They come with roots and leaves and are cheap - 100 for $46. Many of my mangroves have over 50 leaves each and they started with only 2 leaves less than a year ago!
I think the key to success is a DSB (preferably an old one). Growing them in water alone will give poor growth. Ive kept mangroves in temperatures in the 40s and up to 120 degrees. They dont really mind as long as they dont stay in the extremes for too long. Mine grow best in the winter when the temperature is 70-85 degrees. 60 degrees will not be a problem. The window should work well. The brighter the light the better but i agree with John that you shouldn't increase the light level when storing them. The same level or lower will be good.
I think the key to success is a DSB (preferably an old one). Growing them in water alone will give poor growth. Ive kept mangroves in temperatures in the 40s and up to 120 degrees. They dont really mind as long as they dont stay in the extremes for too long. Mine grow best in the winter when the temperature is 70-85 degrees. 60 degrees will not be a problem. The window should work well. The brighter the light the better but i agree with John that you shouldn't increase the light level when storing them. The same level or lower will be good.
The_Nexis_One
New member
Sounds good - I've had my eye on them for a while, but haven't placed an order.... I only want 3 more mature Mangroves in my current setup as a maximum, that will give me 5... I've considered ordering the 100, even if only half lived (didn't know they came with roots/leaves so I was considering 50% loss to be ok)... I still can't find enough places for the remaining 47 plants .. maybe I can work a deal with the LFS's to sell them cheap cheap just so they don't go to waste.
Oh well, We'll just have to see. My next order will be from Billsreef for some Thallasia and misc. Sea grass to complete the lagoon.
Thanks for the info
John.
.. maybe I can work a deal with the LFS's to sell them cheap cheap just so they don't go to waste.Oh well, We'll just have to see. My next order will be from Billsreef for some Thallasia and misc. Sea grass to complete the lagoon.
Thanks for the info
John.
mcox33
New member
I purchased 24 they came as pods.
The lfs sold 8 of these for me at 10.00 each, given to me.
I gave a couple of them to friends. Who have them growing.
1 person got 2 one for his sump and 1 that he planted in dirt.
I have sold 3 of them myself for 10.00 each and the lfs started selling them for 20.00 with roots and leaves. again the money was given to me.
So I got 150.00 out of them plus I gave one to my brother and I have 4.
And there are probably 1 or 2 more at the lfs, They bought my RO unit. and I will probably get a bubble tip anemone this weekend with the rest. In hopes of getting nemo to leave the brain alone.
The lfs sold 8 of these for me at 10.00 each, given to me.
I gave a couple of them to friends. Who have them growing.
1 person got 2 one for his sump and 1 that he planted in dirt.
I have sold 3 of them myself for 10.00 each and the lfs started selling them for 20.00 with roots and leaves. again the money was given to me.
So I got 150.00 out of them plus I gave one to my brother and I have 4.
And there are probably 1 or 2 more at the lfs, They bought my RO unit. and I will probably get a bubble tip anemone this weekend with the rest. In hopes of getting nemo to leave the brain alone.
The_Nexis_One
New member
Thanks for all the great info!
I think I'm going to have to do something like this ;D
John.
I think I'm going to have to do something like this ;D
John.
