Maracyn Plus - FAILED

[atonaltheory]

I must say, this is frustrating because I posted twice in this forum for information regarding the fish's condition of red blotches along with questions about treatment, antibiotics, who has used them, pros and cons, etc....and not one response. I know people viewed the post but its hard for me to imagine no one had any information to share. Lazy hobbyists if that's the case.

So, in the event everyone was ignorant, here is some knowledge about Maracyn Plus from my recent experience.

My Scopas tang is dead after 3 days of treatment. The fish was suffering from red blotches on its body and all my research pointed toward treatment with antibiotics. I chose Maracyn plus based on internet research since no one on the forum would respond to my postings and the fish was getting worse. Treatment needed to happen. The 20 gallon hospital tank was properly dosed, as instructed on the bottle. All other water parameters were mint at the start of treatment. After day 2, the fish showed marked improvement as the red blotches began to fade, the fish showed more energy, more willingness to be observed, and ate well. 12 hours after Day 3's dosage I found the fish swimming slowly upside down with massive white stripes along the border of its body. Two hours later the fish was laying on the bottom on its side. One hour later, no gill movement.

There you go folks. Avoid Maracyn plus. If I missed something and you know about it, please respond.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Without going into the entire subject: IMO, a bacterial infection diagnosis is just a "best guess' in most cases. They are tough enough with your own fish; very difficult on this forum. Antibiotics come in many types, for many types of infections. There isn't a ''cures all" antibiotic for fish. Maracyn plus can be a useful med; but only for certain infections. I doubt that there is a person alive who can positively identify a bacterial infection over the internet and suggest the proper drug any more than 25% of the time. BTW, "red blotches" are common and could be a symptom of many things, not just a bacterial infection. (Coral stings, internal parasites, internal bleeding, bruising, chemical burns, etc.) all of "your" research" obviously did not lead to the right diagnosis.
Calling people on this forum "lazy" or "ignorant" is beyond rude, its insulting and childish. . If anyone is ignorant, it is a hobbyist who would actually expect a perfect diagnosis and treatment plan for a fish over the internet. We're just hobbyists trying to help fellow hobbyists. If that isn't good enough for you; next time consult a Vet. Then, if your fish dies anyhow, you've paid for the right to call him "ignorant".

 

[b0bab0ey]

Calling people on this forum "lazy" or "ignorant" is beyond rude, its insulting and childish. . If anyone is ignorant, it is a hobbyist who would actually expect a perfect diagnosis and treatment plan for a fish over the internet. We're just hobbyists trying to help fellow hobbyists. If that isn't good enough for you; next time consult a Vet. Then, if your fish dies anyhow, you've paid for the right to call him "ignorant".

LOL... You set him straight!

 

[SushiGirl]

I ran an RC search on Maracyn after seeing this thread last night. There was info out there. I'll get infracted if I speak the rest of my mind on this one LOL.

 

[Fishfirst]

Sounds like treatment was working then your water quality failed you. Check ammonia/pH/nitrite on this one. Did you preform daily complete water changes?

 

[MrTuskfish]

I ran an RC search on Maracyn after seeing this thread last night. There was info out there. I'll get infracted if I speak the rest of my mind on this one LOL.

+1
IMO & IME; products that claim to do everything ("broad spectrum antibiotic and a fungicide) rarely do anything well.

 

[Tat2demon]

Also remember that even though youre treating it with something, too much damage may have already been done.

 

[b0bab0ey]

+1
IMO & IME; products that claim to do everything ("broad spectrum antibiotic and a fungicide) rarely do anything well.

I guess I both agree & disagree with you. There are all different kinds/strains of infections we encounter, and some are either not treatable by the antibiotics available to us or it's virtually impossible to match the infection with the correct course of antibiotics. Trying to decipher a bacterial infection over the Internet with just a vague description (and sometimes pics) to go on and the fact that fish are a lot more delicate than humans are all factors working against us. Sometimes it's just a matter of starting treatment too late on a fish already too far gone.

However, all that being said, I'll roll the dice on Maracyn 1 & 2 or Furan-2 any day. I admittedly have a lot more experience with Maracyn than Furan, but IME both seem to be very effective at covering a wide range of both gram positive and gram negative bacterial infections.

Both have their downsides though: Maracyn seems to work slower so it's not the best choice for a badly infected fish that needed treatment started yesterday. And you have to use both Maracyn 1 & 2 to cover all the bases, which can get expensive. Furan-2 seems to work faster and is cheaper, but it doesn't seem to be as gentle on the fish and I have witnessed a few bad reactions to it. One was fatal.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I guess I both agree & disagree with you. There are all different kinds/strains of infections we encounter, and some are either not treatable by the antibiotics available to us or it's virtually impossible to match the infection with the correct course of antibiotics. Trying to decipher a bacterial infection over the Internet with just a vague description (and sometimes pics) to go on and the fact that fish are a lot more delicate than humans are all factors working against us. Sometimes it's just a matter of starting treatment too late on a fish already too far gone.

However, all that being said, I'll roll the dice on Maracyn 1 & 2 or Furan-2 any day. I admittedly have a lot more experience with Maracyn than Furan, but IME both seem to be very effective at covering a wide range of both gram positive and gram negative bacterial infections.

Both have their downsides though: Maracyn seems to work slower so it's not the best choice for a badly infected fish that needed treatment started yesterday. And you have to use both Maracyn 1 & 2 to cover all the bases, which can get expensive. Furan-2 seems to work faster and is cheaper, but it doesn't seem to be as gentle on the fish and I have witnessed a few bad reactions to it. One was fatal.

You may be right on the maracyn. I must think there are so many "bacterial infections" that are really something else. I suppose sometimes we just have to go with our best guess.

 

[atonaltheory]

To those who provided useful information, thanks. To those who chose to take offense, get a grip, read the original post again (every word), and think about who you are trying to defend.

I hope the many on this forum that only consume information and never provide any, learn from my mistakes - which was the intent behind the original post.

 

[cngreg]

covering my own a$$

covering my own a$$

I'm in a situation where folks want me to justify treatment with published knowledge all day long and for fish most of the time that's not possible because the research hasn't been done or isn't published. The bible of fish medicine is Ed Noga's Diseases of fishes book and he has a second edition out but ornamentals aren't covered well. Carpenter's drug dosages for exotics reference manual is also good for aquariums but again, the specifics are lacking. I like this forum and the internet because I can speak frankly and not have to justify.

I'm lucky enough to have access to some decent lab equipment and can take a skin scrape of red blotches to see if it's a parasitic microbe (ciliate or flagellate), an external worm (flatworms commonly), or even a small crustacean parasite. I can also look for fungal spores or hyphae (roots) but those are rare. If i don't see those things i think bacterial, while I could do a culture on agar and sensitivity, the cost usually isn't warranted. Even if i didn;t ahve access to a scope, my first presumption with red splotches is flatworms and i look at the eyes and behind the pecs super closely. Prazi is safe with antibiotics and I have treated it prophylactically when I suspect there are worms im not seeing. External bacterial infections in salt water are usually vibrio or pseudomonas infections (gram negative) and can be treated most effectively by shotgunning an aminoglycoside antibiotic (kanamycin, gentamycin, amikacin) at 10-20mg/L as 1 hours baths (if you can catch the fish) or to a hospital tank 24 hours. I've treated displays with this class of drugs and it hits the nitrifying bacteria a bit and you need to do water changes and bind ammonia with prime or amquel; i don't recommend this. If the lesions aren't looking better in even a day after I like to jump on a sulfa drug like TMP Sulfa which is a broad spectrum antibiotic but works more slowly. If it's popeye I like to use erythromycin. If its possibly ich (cryptocaryon) and a secondary infection i like nitrofurazone.
I think ive already posted bout why i like these drugs back a few months in this forum but if anyone has any challenges or questions I'm happily open to opinions

 

[atonaltheory]

I'm in a situation where folks want me to justify treatment with published knowledge all day long and for fish most of the time that's not possible because the research hasn't been done or isn't published. The bible of fish medicine is Ed Noga's Diseases of fishes book and he has a second edition out but ornamentals aren't covered well. Carpenter's drug dosages for exotics reference manual is also good for aquariums but again, the specifics are lacking. I like this forum and the internet because I can speak frankly and not have to justify.

I'm lucky enough to have access to some decent lab equipment and can take a skin scrape of red blotches to see if it's a parasitic microbe (ciliate or flagellate), an external worm (flatworms commonly), or even a small crustacean parasite. I can also look for fungal spores or hyphae (roots) but those are rare. If i don't see those things i think bacterial, while I could do a culture on agar and sensitivity, the cost usually isn't warranted. Even if i didn;t ahve access to a scope, my first presumption with red splotches is flatworms and i look at the eyes and behind the pecs super closely. Prazi is safe with antibiotics and I have treated it prophylactically when I suspect there are worms im not seeing. External bacterial infections in salt water are usually vibrio or pseudomonas infections (gram negative) and can be treated most effectively by shotgunning an aminoglycoside antibiotic (kanamycin, gentamycin, amikacin) at 10-20mg/L as 1 hours baths (if you can catch the fish) or to a hospital tank 24 hours. I've treated displays with this class of drugs and it hits the nitrifying bacteria a bit and you need to do water changes and bind ammonia with prime or amquel; i don't recommend this. If the lesions aren't looking better in even a day after I like to jump on a sulfa drug like TMP Sulfa which is a broad spectrum antibiotic but works more slowly. If it's popeye I like to use erythromycin. If its possibly ich (cryptocaryon) and a secondary infection i like nitrofurazone.
I think ive already posted bout why i like these drugs back a few months in this forum but if anyone has any challenges or questions I'm happily open to opinions

Great info thanks. The Scopas had recently been successfully treated for Velvet, and was in the last stages of a copper free hospital stay (an 8 week period in quarantine without medication) when the red blotches began appearing. Kind of bizarre because my Maracyn treatment choice appeared to be working during the first 24 hours. After the second administration however, things went bad very quickly.

 

[Triton_Z]

You have to remember a number of regular posters with the knowledge to aid you don't visit the forums daily and just because you requested help doesn't necessarily mean a quick and accurate answer every time. I am surprised at the lack of response to some posts by regular daily users at times, but remember they may have nothing to add to the conversation.

Search is your friend. I think you proceeded along the proper treatment, however the infection may have been too far advanced or complicated by other factors.

I'd just avoid the name calling and assumptions if you want help from a free to participate forum online. Sorry for your loss.

 

[atonaltheory]

You have to remember a number of regular posters with the knowledge to aid you don't visit the forums daily and just because you requested help doesn't necessarily mean a quick and accurate answer every time. I am surprised at the lack of response to some posts by regular daily users at times, but remember they may have nothing to add to the conversation.

Search is your friend. I think you proceeded along the proper treatment, however the infection may have been too far advanced or complicated by other factors.

I'd just avoid the name calling and assumptions if you want help from a free to participate forum online. Sorry for your loss.

Priceless stuff Triton, thanks.

 

[Hurricane Ivan]

I don't believe you can say it was the Maracyn. I had two tang in QT and my Kole shanked my Regal. I dosed to see if I could keep him from dying, and kole got some mouth damage when he attacked too. Did plenty of water changes and overfeed. The last days of copper treatment the Kole started swimming vertically. He eventually Kole died. He had been eating and active for a month or 2 at the LFS.

In a nut shell, I believe ammonia killed the kole not the Maracyn. My point is you chose one thing but did you check Ammonia, Nitrite, (Nitrate optional), copper, Salinity, and so forth?

There are lots of people in the hobby. When I have a question and need immediate feedback, I ask the people that I KNOW that they know what they are doing. ie. Ask the guy who has 3 achilles, black tang, purple, and other "expert fish", how I need to acclimate my new achilles. For Coral questions, ask the guy who can't keep his sps trimmed down because of to much growth, and not the guy that has beginner coral.

Take info with a grain of salt, unless you know they have PROVEN success.

 

[Hurricane Ivan]

PS, I ask via text or Facebook Msg, something I know where they can reply ASAP. Forums are often slow, It's been 3 weeks since my last post.

 

[HumbleFish]

Old thread... but I, for one, would like to hear of anyone's experiences using Maracyn Plus. It really sucks that they discontinued s/w Maracyn 1 & 2. You can recreate the Maracyn 1 & 2 "formula" using erythromycin & minocycline, but the "B Complex Vitamins" the Maracyns contained were a nice appetite stimulant.

 

[snorvich]

Old thread... but I, for one, would like to hear of anyone's experiences using Maracyn Plus. It really sucks that they discontinued s/w Maracyn 1 & 2. You can recreate the Maracyn 1 & 2 "formula" using erythromycin & minocycline, but the "B Complex Vitamins" the Maracyns contained were a nice appetite stimulant.

I agree about wishing Maracyn was available. The original poster diagnosed his problem, perhaps correctly, perhaps not (at this point it sounds like Uronema based on the mortality time line) and provided a solution. Diagnosing a problem in this forum is tricky: many people do not provide a picture, or the picture may not be definitive, many have an idea what problem they have but it may be incorrect, many do not provide behavioral elements of the problem, some people implement a solution "improperly", so all in all, we (the folks who read and respond here) try to provide best solutions given the information available. Many people who answer this forum are experts with one or more aspect of keeping marine aquaria; finding greater expertise on facebook or equivalent is, I suppose possible, but if so why are they there and not here when this is one of the best (perhaps the best) board of it kind? (I am not really asking that question).

 

[MrTuskfish]

I heard about a poll today, can't remember who did it. Among H.S. seniors and college freshmen; Facebook is the main source of world news. Of course all of those posts are "ya dude, I heard,...." passed on info. Scary. And some of these people vote. But, hey, I'm just an old dude, ya know!

 

[mskvarenina]

Calling people on this forum "lazy" or "ignorant" is beyond rude, its insulting and childish. . If anyone is ignorant, it is a hobbyist who would actually expect a perfect diagnosis and treatment plan for a fish over the internet. We're just hobbyists trying to help fellow hobbyists. If that isn't good enough for you; next time consult a Vet. Then, if your fish dies anyhow, you've paid for the right to call him "ignorant".

I know I'm replying to an old thread but I must say the help and comments MrTuskfish, Snorvich and others here have been invaluable and I really appreciate their time spent reading and replying to fellow hobbyist. I for one greatly appreciate every comment and reply.