Marine ich in Display Tank

[waspears]

Hi there, I've done quite a bit of reading on hyposalinity for the treatment of ich but haven't found much on what to do with the DT. I have had a sick pajama in my tank for about 2 weeks - I couldn't catch her and wasn't certain what was wrong with her and now my lawnmower is sick too. I plan to transfer the sick ones to a hospital tank for hyposalinity but my question is what to do with my display tank? And what to do with the fish that aren't showing signs of illness and the inverts in the tank? From what I understand the parasite can live a long time without a host. So will the healthy fish be safe if I removed the sick ones? And will my inverts be affected? And what do I do about the substrate and LR and corals? And snails?

My tank is 40g
My parameters are normal - I have been doing 10% changes every second day since the pajama got sick (at first I though it may just be injury or virus)
I have a pair of maldive clowns - which seem to be unaffected
A pair of Pajama Cardinals - 1 with "pimples" around her mouth (that appear to go away and then come back) and 1 unaffected
A watchman goby - seems fine
A lawnmower blenny with a white (discoloured) patch in his face and patches that appear and dispear, 1 was on his dorsal fin and the other was on his head feather thing - I noticed the patch 3 days ago
All fish are eating and acting normally
I also have an urchin, a sea star and cucumber - who seems to be covered in slime or little bubbles and has been expelling intestines since yesterday.
And I do not have a sump.

Please help!!!

 

[Tin_Whistler]

The only cure for your display tank is to let it sit fishless for 8-10 weeks. Without fish the parasite won’t be able to survive, and will die off.

As for your fish you should treat all of them, not just the ones that show symptoms. You may see the effects of ich on a few of your fish, but I can guarantee you that your fish that don’t show symptoms have some of the parasite on them as well.

 

[snorvich]

The only cure for your display tank is to let it sit fishless for 8-10 weeks. Without fish the parasite won't be able to survive, and will die off.

As for your fish you should treat all of them, not just the ones that show symptoms. You may see the effects of ich on a few of your fish, but I can guarantee you that your fish that don't show symptoms have some of the parasite on them as well.

Good advice.

 

[lagatbezan]

a lot of great info here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

 

[mal7887]

Sigh"¦ Marine Ich"¦ Spent a lot of time banging my head against the wall :headwalls: because of it. I am currently in round two of this stuff. Treated fish with hyposalinity the first time. A few months later it came back and spread to almost all the fish in the reef tank. Finally decided to treat with copper so I am setting up a FO tank and after the two week treatment period in QT I am moving them to the FO tank. I am going to let the reef tank sit for nine weeks without fish to let the ich go through their cycles and die off.

Google marine ich and learn the various life stages it goes through. Quite interesting...

You should treat ALL the fish even if they don't show signs. It can still be present in their gills. Some fish can fight it better than others. I know that hyposalinity is much easier on the fish but Copper works for sure, but it's very hard on the fish and will kill any inverts/coral. After doing a lot of research I decided to go with copper this round. One week down so far so good.

 

[waspears]

Thanks guys but what about my inverts? Does is not affect them? Could it be what's stressing my cucumber?

 

[mal7887]

Thanks guys but what about my inverts? Does is not affect them? Could it be what's stressing my cucumber?

No

 

[waspears]

Uh-oh... does it sound like something other than ich?

 

[snorvich]

Google marine ich and learn the various life stages it goes through. Quite interesting...

Or you could simply read this.

 

[snorvich]

Thanks guys but what about my inverts? Does is not affect them? Could it be what's stressing my cucumber?

Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine ich or MI) does not affect invertebrates. However they can carry it. Unless MI eventually finds a fish, it will die.

 

[waspears]

thanks so much guys! I was told you were quick and knowlegable but wow, really big help Thanks

 

[MrTuskfish]

Sigh"¦ Marine Ich"¦ Spent a lot of time banging my head against the wall :headwalls: because of it. I am currently in round two of this stuff. Treated fish with hyposalinity the first time. A few months later it came back and spread to almost all the fish in the reef tank. Finally decided to treat with copper so I am setting up a FO tank and after the two week treatment period in QT I am moving them to the FO tank. I am going to let the reef tank sit for nine weeks without fish to let the ich go through their cycles and die off.

Google marine ich and learn the various life stages it goes through. Quite interesting...

You should treat ALL the fish even if they don't show signs. It can still be present in their gills. Some fish can fight it better than others. I know that hyposalinity is much easier on the fish but Copper works for sure, but it's very hard on the fish and will kill any inverts/coral. After doing a lot of research I decided to go with copper this round. One week down so far so good.

I'm no longer convinced that hypo is easier on a fish than copper. I always thought so, but after 1/2 hour on the phone with a tech guy from (admittedly) a major mfg of fish meds. Their research shows that hypo is probably just as stressful as the average effective dose of copper. I've always felt this way; but the CW says hypo is less stressful. Another debate topic, guess.

 

[MrTuskfish]

The only cure for your display tank is to let it sit fishless for 8-10 weeks. Without fish the parasite won't be able to survive, and will die off.

As for your fish you should treat all of them, not just the ones that show symptoms. You may see the effects of ich on a few of your fish, but I can guarantee you that your fish that don't show symptoms have some of the parasite on them as well.

You bet, well said.

 

[mal7887]

I would agree with you now that I think about it. I did hypo on a hardy trigger once and he was freaking out and acting stressed throughout the entire treatment.

 

[mal7887]

I would also add that i am half way through a copper treatment with a naso, powder blue and niger trigger and they have shown no signs of stress. (knocks on wood)

 

[sandwi54]

I'm no longer convinced that hypo is easier on a fish than copper. I always thought so, but after 1/2 hour on the phone with a tech guy from (admittedly) a major mfg of fish meds. Their research shows that hypo is probably just as stressful as the average effective dose of copper. I've always felt this way; but the CW says hypo is less stressful. Another debate topic, guess.

I completely agree with you MrTuskfish. I have done three hypo before and never found the method to be easy on the fish. I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to tell if the fish are just as stressed out as copper, but I can say hypo is a very tough method in terms of pH control, unless the QT has large amount of liverocks to help buffer the pH. I ended up having to dose sodium bicarbonate twice a day to keep pH constant enough.

Cupramine is way easier and the only fish i've lost to it is goby (I didn't know gobies are more sensitive to copper at the time).

 

[MrTuskfish]

I completely agree with you MrTuskfish. I have done three hypo before and never found the method to be easy on the fish. I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to tell if the fish are just as stressed out as copper, but I can say hypo is a very tough method in terms of pH control, unless the QT has large amount of liverocks to help buffer the pH. I ended up having to dose sodium bicarbonate twice a day to keep pH constant enough.

Cupramine is way easier and the only fish i've lost to it is goby (I didn't know gobies are more sensitive to copper at the time).

Fish are in a QT for a reason. They are new and weakened, or they have a disease/parasite. A small number of these fish are going to die, no matter what. I think its very easy to assume its the copper without really knowing, or even having having a hint. These anecdotal accounts (yes, a few may be due to the copper) spread rapidly in our tight little community of SW hobbyists. If some folks knew that almost every fish on the market has been treated with copper somewhere between the reef and their tank.....well, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[sandwi54]

Fish are in a QT for a reason. They are new and weakened, or they have a disease/parasite. A small number of these fish are going to die, no matter what. I think its very easy to assume its the copper without really knowing, or even having having a hint. These anecdotal accounts (yes, a few may be due to the copper) spread rapidly in our tight little community of SW hobbyists. If some folks knew that almost every fish on the market has been treated with copper somewhere between the reef and their tank.....well, I'll just leave it at that.

Right. People who don't quarantine their fish always end up paying for it (including myself way back then). I always try to give beginners good advice, but at the same time I would tell them that sometimes a small number of fish are just not going to make it despite what they do. That's why it's important to pick healthy specimen to begin with, but without the experience of having kept various species of fish and knowing their typical behaviors, it is not an easy thing for beginners. That's why I sometimes volunteer to go buy fish with beginner friends to minimize the chance of buying unhealthy fish.

Personally I think of QT as a way of testing a fish's health. If it can survive disease treatment + slightly imperfect water quality (ammonia/nitrite from retarded biological filter) + various other environment stress, then the fish can be considered healthy and should live quite long.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Personally I think of QT as a way of testing a fish's health. If it can survive disease treatment + slightly imperfect water quality (ammonia/nitrite from retarded biological filter) + various other environment stress, then the fish can be considered healthy and should live quite long.

I'm sure you do something similar, but here's a copy of how I cycle my QT...I've posted this several times. I never have a problem with levels of ammonia/nitrite; I don't think Cupramine is that hard on the bacteria, that's just my experience and SeaChem has the same position. My general point on QT & parasites is about the same as our Country's position on terrorists; 'Never negotiate with terrorists and kill them all at any reasonable cost".

"n regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter"

 

[sandwi54]

I'm sure you do something similar, but here's a copy of how I cycle my QT...I've posted this several times. I never have a problem with levels of ammonia/nitrite; I don't think Cupramine is that hard on the bacteria, that's just my experience and SeaChem has the same position. My general point on QT & parasites is about the same as our Country's position on terrorists; 'Never negotiate with terrorists and kill them all at any reasonable cost".

"n regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter"

Yeah I love and use Aquaclear for my QT too. I use the biggest one 110 for either my 55g or 30g QT. The big sponge is awesome and I throw the ceramic rings in as well. Is there a particular reason that you don't use the ceramic rings?

From my experience, about half the time when I dose copper i get a low, measureable ammonia and/or nitrite (maybe 0.25 to 0.5ppm) so I would do a water change to knock it down. The other half the time ammonia/nitrite stay at 0. I guess it depends on the load as well. Like if i quarantine two gobies for 8 weeks, put them into DT, then go out and get a big tang or angel. The amount of bacteria present may not be enough to handle the new fish initially, and adding copper could make it worse. In those cases I just feed lightly (once a day) until the QT is cycled again.