Marine Ich Solutions HELP

[Cubavera89]

I have 4 Tangs in my 150 gallon tank including a Hippo Tang, a Powder Blue, a Chevron, and An Achillies. The Powder Blue Tang likes to harass the Achillies from time to time pretty viciously and this has been going on for about a month since I got the Achillies. Everything was ok until the other day when I noticed the Hippo and Achillies with white spots on them, with the Powder Blue having some as well, the Chevron looks ok though. Im assuming this is Ich. Im strongly thinking about selling my Powder Blue to my LFS because I dont think he will ever stop harassing the Achillies. But even if I do this how could I go about treating the 3 remaining Tangs?? Ive already purchased a Vitamin C supplement which I will start dosing tomorrow to help boost their immune systems. I usually feed them spinche and fish flakes and just recently purchased seweed for them. Will this be enough to help them recover?? or are there other methods needed?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[greg1786]

Unfortunately if your fish have ich the only way to get it out of your display tank is to let the tank go fallow for 10 weeks while treating your fish in a qt tank with copper or hypo salinity. The ich has three life cycles, one of which can survive solely by having a fish to host on. By leaving the tank fallow of fish for 10 weeks you are removing any host for the free swimming ich to live on. Once all ich has hatched and become free swimming, they will die of starvation basically without a fish to live on. While this is taking place you can set up a qt and treat your fish in it with copper or under hyposalinity. This will assure that youve killed any ich in the fish and in the dt if done correctly. Remember just because you dont see it doesnt mean it isnt there. Many ppl make the mistake of thinking theyve gotten rid of ich after a few weeks because their fish arent showing the white spots. In reality it could be hiding in the fish gills or could be in the (theront i believe) stage which is when they attatch to a hard surface in the tank waiting to hatch and start the life cycle over again. I battled it for three months and it took the lives of four fish almost causing me to get out of the hobby. Just make sure you read thd ich stickies here, be very thorough, follow your plan and schedule very strictly and ask as many questions on here as you need there are some very intelligent ppl here who know a ton about ich and were very helpful to me. Good luck and try to stay positive

 

[Cubavera89]

Ok thankyou for the help. This is a pain but I feel im in too deep to give up now. It sounds like im going to have to try and setup a decent sized quarantine big enough to fit my 3 Tangs, 2 Clownfish, mandarin, and royal grama. I may have a 50 gallon tank somewhere to use. Should I treat all of them with copper or hypo salinity? Would every fish in my tank definately die if they remain in the tank, even under special care?

 

[sponger0]

Whether or not if they would die, you would still have ich in your tank and tangs could be reinfected. In order to eradicate all parasites, you would need the tank to run fishless. There isnt away around this. Either treat all, or none.

 

[Cubavera89]

I know what you mean that the ich would still remain in the tank. Im just thinking if I remove the Powder Blue Tang from the tank that would take away practically all of the stress away from the other fish and the ich will not be a factor as long as there is no tension in the tank. I tried to get my Powder Blue abd Achillies Tang to get along in a 150 gallon tank for a little over a month, but I dont think theyll be able to live together peacefully

 

[sponger0]

You dont need stress for ich to kill fish. Only thing you need in a tank of ich, for the ich to kill the fish, is ich.

 

[Painted skin]

I know what you mean that the ich would still remain in the tank. Im just thinking if I remove the Powder Blue Tang from the tank that would take away practically all of the stress away from the other fish and the ich will not be a factor as long as there is no tension in the tank. I tried to get my Powder Blue abd Achillies Tang to get along in a 150 gallon tank for a little over a month, but I dont think theyll be able to live together peacefully

Not trying to be a wise guy, but would you play Russian roulette? Why not run fish less and QT all fish and treating them properly and have a piece of mind..

Curing one fish and then placing them in an infected environment again, is just a ticking time bomb.

 

[sponger0]

Whether it's russian roulette, ticking time bomb, or a death trap, QTing one fish when you have multiple with ich is utterly pointless. Thats the point.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I have 4 Tangs in my 150 gallon tank including a Hippo Tang, a Powder Blue, a Chevron, and An Achillies. The Powder Blue Tang likes to harass the Achillies from time to time pretty viciously and this has been going on for about a month since I got the Achillies. Everything was ok until the other day when I noticed the Hippo and Achillies with white spots on them, with the Powder Blue having some as well, the Chevron looks ok though. Im assuming this is Ich. Im strongly thinking about selling my Powder Blue to my LFS because I dont think he will ever stop harassing the Achillies. But even if I do this how could I go about treating the 3 remaining Tangs?? Ive already purchased a Vitamin C supplement which I will start dosing tomorrow to help boost their immune systems. I usually feed them spinche and fish flakes and just recently purchased seweed for them. Will this be enough to help them recover?? or are there other methods needed?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Immunity against ich cannot be enhanced.

Ich is a disease only because of confinement in a closed system.

The sooner you accept this the sooner you will be free from it.

The ich organism survives due to extreme humility. It leaves the host on its own design and seeks out to allow 99.9% or more of its offsring to die so that it is no threat to the fish host in the wild.

Ich is not a life and death struggle between parasite and host in the ocean. If immunity can be enhanced and ich has such a life history, ich would have extinct long ago.

The fish does not need to develope enhanced immunity against ich in the wild, just because John Dole wants it to will not matter.

The only way to deal with ich is ERADICATION.

 

[Cubavera89]

Im not talking about QTing only the Powder Blue. Im talking about removing the Powder Blue permanately because he can be very aggressive causing stress among the other Tangs. I could try and setup a 50 gallon QT tank to put all of my fish in and use copper or hyposaline methods, but im afraid this could cause more stress among my fish and maybe kill some of them. And to my understanding from reading another forum and talking with my LFS manager, there is a consensus that fish can fight it off ich with a low stress level and a healthy diet with vitamin c and garlic. I understand that the ich will still be present in the tank but as long as it wont be a factor there wont be a problem. After all I never had ich before my two tangs were fighting. My clownfish, royal grama, mandarin, and Chevron Tang are showing no signs of ich. Im just trying to figure out the most pragmatic way to go about solving this problem, and if there is a way of solving this problem without setting up a QT for my all of my fish I would rather take that route.

 

[sponger0]

The most practical way is to cure them of ich for good and continue a QTing regimen to prevent introducing any more diseases into your tank.

You should have said "Im looking for any other way than using a QT to cure ich"

 

[sponger0]

There really isnt much stress involved in moving a fish to QT. Less stress than bringing them home from a fish store. Stress is over used as a term and excuse for alot of things

 

[Painted skin]

When you are referring to vitamin C and garlic, you are referring to immunity what most people call it. I would suggest you read the following 2 links especially the first link under immunity section.

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

And if you still wish to rely on vitamin C and garlic and cross your fingers to resolve marine ich, then I wish you well and good luck! You have your answer to your question here from the stickies and experience hobbyist that had posted and reply to your thread..

My final words is stop dancing around and trying to find short cuts to resolve the problem and nip it in the butt bite the bullet treat it properly.

 

[sponger0]

my final words is stop dancing around and trying to find short cuts to resolve the problem and nip it in the butt bite the bullet treat it properly.

+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

[wooden_reefer]

And to my understanding from reading another forum and talking with my LFS manager, there is a consensus that fish can fight it off ich with a low stress level and a healthy diet with vitamin c and garlic.

Only very ignorant people think so.

Forget about enhancing immunity against ich, for reason I stated.

Certain pathogens can be controlled by enhancing immunity, not ich. This is because of its life history, and basic ecological evolutionary consideration...

There is HUGE fundamental change when you no longer have the dilution effect of the ocean, for many pathogens. For ich, the lack of dilution, which the relationship has depended on for hundreds of thousands of years, will be decisive.

Even many bacterial infection is the result of lack of dilution, but at least immunity is a factor because even in the ocean bacteria do not leave on design and life and death struggle between bacteria and fish is a factor even in the ocean.

If you waver on this basic point, your comittment to QT for ERADICATION of ich will be affected.

 

[Cubavera89]

Sponger I understand what you mean when you say moving the fish to QT is the way to perminately eliminate ich. I just dont kno if I have the nessesary means to QT all of my fish at the same time. Im not against QTing, but when I see other people saying that you can keep the ich at bay to the point where it wont be a hinderence by healthy diet and less stress on the fish, it makes me feel like the more practical way for me would be to remove the Powder Blue to help eliviate the tension in the tank so that the fish can recover to the point where the ich wont bother them or even be noticable. My big question to everybody who reads is, is this possible?? And what is the likelyhood of this method??

 

[wooden_reefer]

There is some chance that garlic can be drug to reduce infestation, but not immunity as in antibody development.

I can QT many many fish at once. I routinely do so. I QT them all for 10-12 weeks most of the time with little work, little WC.

The first is to established very good nitrification for QT. Then there must be UV to reduce the chance of bacterial infection.

Eradication of ich requires proper prior planning.

 

[sponger0]

Why are you continuing to try a find a method that is 100%? You have the methods, you just dont want to. This is a common feeling among alot of people who have not QT'ed before. But I learned it very early on and was one of the best if not the best practice I picked up.

Keeping it at bay is questionable....the way you are describing it.

Yes there is a way to where ich wont bother or show up. Its called copper, hyposalinity, and tank transfer method.

If you dont want to use a QT and are looking for every reason not to, then so be it. But dont be surprised when you keep losing fish to ich and gets so fustrating, and you continually lose money to the point you want to quit the hobby.

 

[Cubavera89]

To be objective about this my LFS manager showed me a Black Tang in a display tank that was doing perfectly fine. He told me when they first recieved it the fish was covered in ich but through special care it fought it off. Even though there is still ich in the display tank all of the fish are healthy, including the Black Tang...I dont think he was lying to me

 

[Painted skin]

Why are you continuing to try a find a method that is 100%? You have the methods, you just dont want to. This is a common feeling among alot of people who have not QT'ed before. But I learned it very early on and was one of the best if not the best practice I picked up.

Keeping it at bay is questionable....the way you are describing it.

Yes there is a way to where ich wont bother or show up. Its called copper, hyposalinity, and tank transfer method.

If you dont want to use a QT and are looking for every reason not to, then so be it. But dont be surprised when you keep losing fish to ich and gets so fustrating, and you continually lose money to the point you want to quit the hobby.

+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Back at you, bud.


OP you mentioned you have a 50gal that's enough for a QT for 3 tangs and your other 2-3 small fish.