Medical Dosing Pumps

[DMBillies]

I probably won't do it too soon, but I've been thinking a lot about getting a 2 or 3 tube dosing pump (2-part and magnesium). I was wondering if anyone in the club had used them before (or now), what they thought, if there are any particularly good units at decent prices, etc. I am pretty notoriously bad about remembering to dose and I've just started looking in to these. Figured my peeps might be able to give me some advice/direction before I look around all willy-nilly.

If you have one sitting around and want to be generous with an asking price, I could probably be talked into buying one now...

 

[teamreefers]

if you know some one who works in the medical field a IV pump will work and you could probably get it pretty cheap if the hospital is upgrading eqipment... just a thought and my 2 cents

 

[sandalscout]

I still have connections with people @ the hospital I used to work at, and I suspect that many hospitals are doing the same thing, expensive equipment like pumps are being sold to refurbers, they are will to buy them in bulk and save hospitals the headache of getting rid of them legally. There is a chance, but I honestly think that the cheapest way to get good quality pumps with nice controllers is probably with the Aqua Medic dosing pumps. Unfortunately, you are lookin @ ~$350 for a 3 pump unit, but they have a much smaller foot print than 3 regular IV pumps and have a single controller.

 

[teamreefers]

it was just a thought?????

 

[NeveSSL]

I don't think Matt was attacking you or anything. He was just saying you may have better luck elsewhere.

OR, Brian, you could get an Aquatronica! They have a dosing pump module. You just tell it how much to dose over how long and when and it does it!

I'll probably get one if I do two-part later on with a larger tank, but I think kalk is plenty for now for my calcium needs (although if I keep adding SPS that may change).

Brandon

 

[crumbletop]

I have had GREAT luck using Cole Parmer Masterflex pumps purchased off of ebay. They are super high quality, lab-grade peristaltic pumps. I picked up a 2rpm pump with 2 heads for about $40. I found a reasonably priced place on-line to get good tubing for them and it has worked great. I use my Aquacontroller Jr. to turn on/off the pump, and use the tubing diameter along with the "on" time to dial in whatever volume I need. I haven't touched my 2-part dosing for probably 4 months now.

Here is how I did it (it took a bit of calculating):

I use the L/S 14 norprene tubing that flows 0.228 ml per revolution.
I set the AC Jr. to turn the pump on for 2 minutes and then off for 12 minutes.
I calculated how much this would deliver over 24 hours, and also how much different delays would change things. This gives me an easy setting if I want to go up in volume or down in volume. The table is something like this (but it is cleaner in excel):

Delay interval: 8 minutes
Doses / Day: 180
Vol / Day: 192.13 ml

Delay interval: 9 minutes
Doses / Day: 160
Vol / Day: 170.78 ml

Delay interval: 10 minutes
Doses / Day: 144
Vol / Day: 153.70 ml

Delay interval: 11 minutes
Doses / Day: 131
Vol / Day: 139.73 ml

Delay interval: 12 minutes
Doses / Day: 120
Vol / Day: 128.08 ml

Delay interval: 13 minutes
Doses / Day: 111
Vol / Day: 118.23 ml

etc.

I can change things further by changing the dosing on time if I needed to. If you don't have an aquarium controller, then you might need to get a system that will dispense a reasonably accurate amount (i.e. you can program the unit to dose what you want). Since I already had an AC Jr., this worked out great!

 

[sandalscout]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12491515#post12491515 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teamreefers
it was just a thought?????

Definitely, and a really good one, just not sure how easy it'll be to find cheaply nowadays. 3-5 years ago, it'd probably been really easy!

Jack, thanks for the info on those, I've seem them on ebay, and aside fro the slightly larger size, wasn't sure how good they'd be. Definitely gotta keep an eye open for those now.

 

[Siffy]

Something like this?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1386219
Just an example, I have no personal info on the quality.

If you can find a Cole Parmer like Jack and I have, I have to 2nd that recommendation. And if you find one for 40 bucks, do not pass it up. They're a little heavy but built like tanks and will last for years. Mine is a little noisy at higher rpms (I have a variable speed version/controller), but not bad on low. The only problem with the pump I have is my tubing isn't great. I get a pinhole in it about every 2 months, and that's just the way it is. Silicon tubing fails eventually after X cycles. Tygon is supposed to be better. Jack, what tubing are you using and where do you order it?

The other peristaltic/dosing pump I have is the SP3000. All I can say about it is stay away from the Aqua Media pumps. Their 2 roller design is garbage and there's no way that pump can live up to their claims, like "can pump up to 30ft". Without a check valve it can't pump 1 foot. It's not a quality issue, it's just a 2 roller design is a failure and I wish I'd noticed that flaw before I ordered it. If you do end up with a small "aquarium type" dosing pump, go with the 4 roller from bulkreefsupply.com. 4 isn't necessary, but I've yet to see a cheap (new) 3 roller one made specifically for aquariums.

If this were for a nano tank, I could offer a more detailed extremely cheap solution using just a couple syringes, check valves, and a timer. I assume this is for the new 270.

Ok, I now see Jack said he's using Neoprene tubing. How long has it lasted for you Jack and where are you ordering? Thanks

 

[crumbletop]

I'm using Norprene (note the spelling, not neoprene). Norprene is highly resistant to alkali and also has excellent longevity with repeated compressions. They used to have a nice summary chart of all tubing types on the cole parmer site that broke things down by PSI, temp, and RPM. I can't find that chart, but basically norprene blows the other types of tubing away. That said, this is what I have been able to find that may help:

Silicone & Viton Tubing - Masterflex Precision Tubing (left), Masterflex High Performance Precision Tubing (right)

Norprene & Tigon LFL Tubing - Masterflex Precision Tubing (left), Masterflex High Performance Precision Tubing (right)

If you run at RPMs lower than 600 you get longer life. I have not changed out my tubing in 6 months and it still looks new. I took it out about a month ago to inspect and it looks great. My pump runs intermittently for a total of around 4 hours/day. At that rate, this stuff should last me a few years between failures.

I got my stuff from usplastic.com. I think this is the stuff I got (same as L/S 14 tubing):
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/va...y_name=30153&product_id=8434&variant_id=54288

FWIW, they have awesome water containers too. At some point I'm gonna order some to further automate some things and expand my topoff capacity.

 

[DMBillies]

Gracias my medical and non-medical friends...

I actually just pulled the trigger on an AC Jr., so it seems like the pump set-up you have Jack might be the cheapest way to get a decent dosing pump and automate this sucker. I'll have to look over this thread and check out some of the links when I get a bit more time, but I do appreciate the direction.

 

[DMBillies]

Siffy-

Yes this is for the 270, but I love to hear about DIY stuff and the nano doser definitely sounds interesting.


Jack-

I was looking around trying to find exactly what you are talking about and I think I am a little hung up on how exactly you accomplished your set-up. I found a pump/controller (below) which I assume is similar to what you have. I think it is good for pics to understand what I'm talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/C38947-Cole-Parmer-Masterflex-2-Head-Pump-Drive-System_W0QQitemZ260238249772QQihZ016QQcategoryZ78222QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If I'm reading you right, you don't have the controller because you're using your AC Jr to do it. So, you'd just have the pump and the 2 heads. The pump cord is not a standard outlet plug, but assuming the pump runs on regular 110V AC, you could just put a pig-tail on the pump and plug it into the DC8. Is that what you did?

I assume this would spin the pump at max rotation, the speed of which should be marked on the pump somewhere (I would think) and you could then use that speed in your calculation.

Is there anything preventing you from buying another easy-load head, putting it on the pump, and dosing all 3 parts of Randy's recipe? It's not a big deal to put the Mg in when the 2 part is empty, but I'd honestly rather just dose all of them at once.

If this isn't the kind of pump you have can you give me a model # or link me to an example? Seems like skipping the controller is where the money savings is really at... and frankly I'll have to test and adjust the dosing over time anyway... so switching the dose delay time is almost just as easy as changing the volume.

 

[NeveSSL]

Congrats on the AC Jr., Brian!

Did you get the one with the serial port?

If so, let me know. I'd be more than happy to build a cable for you if you don't already have one that will allow you to use the switch.

Brandon

 

[crumbletop]

Brian -- I'll try to get some pics to explain it. There aren't any pumps on ebay right now that are reasonable, IMO.

RE dosing mg, I don't dose that with mine because the dose is so much less than the ca and the alk. I just dump some mg in the sump every once and a while. You can attach 3 pump heads, but they will all rotate at the same time, and so you'd need to figure out how to get the mg to put less in. You could do that with smaller diameter tubing for the mg and larger for the ca/alk, but that may not work too well for dosing smaller amounts. I actually have 2 pumps at home, and I'll try to get some pics up on how the whole setup works.

 

[Siffy]

Thanks Jack,
I'd thought that was a simple typo. Now I just need to figure out in inches what size tubing I need. It's probably the smallest they carry for a 7014-21 head.

Brian,
Sorry it's in Dutch, but the pictures should explain enough.
http://www.home.zonnet.nl/rsetteur/aquarium/karel/doseer_pmp/index_doseer.htm

I don't know about Jack's pump, but mine is DC. So is the one on that ebay link likely. So it won't work without the controller. If you can find one that's not variable speed, it'll be fine since you don't really need it given you have an AC. As far as dosing Mg at the same time. If you can get 3 heads cheaply, it should be easy enough either with different sized tubing or diluting the Mg container. Just make sure you're getting heads that will connect to each other. I've seen at least 3 types. Square, slotted, and some that will not connect to additional heads. FWIW, you could setup another head to dose for almost anything you regularly add to your tank with an extra container, a little math, and dilution.

To explain what I mean, and why I like the idea of getting an expandable dosing setup here's an example.
Say you'll be dosing 5 gallons of 2 part every 2 weeks between refills. I think the used ratio of mag to ca is 1:5. So you'd put 1 gallon of the Mg part in a third 5 gallon bucket and fill it the rest of the way with just RO/DI. Then say you want to dose trace elements like SeaChem's Reef Plus and Reef Trace or Tropic Marin's K and A elements. You'd just take the recommended dose, something like 1ml or 5ml per 50g and calc what you'd add per day then multiply that by however many days you have enough 2part for (14 in this example). I think TM is 2ml per 50g max per day, so roughly 10ml max per day in your new system, so you'd add 140ml of each trace elements to a 4th and 5th bucket and then fill them with RO/DI.

This goes for almost anything you add to your tank, so you only have to deal with it once every X days rather than daily. I'm not saying to worry about setting it up now, just something to think about when getting a dosing pump.

 

[crumbletop]

Here is a stab at making this a bit more understandable

I have a 2 rpm pump with 2 heads attached that looks like this:

I run tubing from each jug of 2-part into a pump, and then from there to a high-flow area of the sump. The pump has a regular power cord on the back of it, which is plugged into the AC Jr. power strip. When power is supplied by the strip, the pump turns on. Here is a pic of the setup:

I also have a variable speed pump that I purchased for about $90 that is lying around waiting for another currently ill-defined project. It has pump heads that can take a variety of tubing sizes. The heads on my 2 rpm pump can only take L/S 14 tubing. The variable speed pump looks like this (with 2 heads instead of one):

 

[Siffy]

After thought. I need to retract some of that. I do not advocate starting out with the maximum dosing for trace elements. It like anything else we don't test for should be used cautiously to avoid overdosing.

 

[Siffy]

Brian, if you're into DIY projects, this one really isn't that bad if you can find the heads for cheap to make it worthwhile.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1266571

 

[crumbletop]

William, the heads I am using on the 2 rpm pump are 7014-21. They use L/S 14 tubing which has an ID of 1/16. Same tubing I linked to above

 

[sandalscout]

One thing that I was really looking at doing, if for no other reason than I don't understand why, was dosing the Calciuma and Alk 12 hours apart from each other. Is there no benefit to this if the 2 pump head were tied together on a single motor?

 

[DMBillies]

Thanks Jack... that clears up what you're running. The pumps I was looking at mostly looked nothing like yours... and definitely didn't have a price tag near what you were talking. I'll just keep my eyes open and save my pennies. This is definitely something I want to do eventually because I think it will help keep everything much more stable.

sandalscout - Not sure I totally understand what you're saying, but I think by adding very small amounts gradually there is little benefit to spacing out your doses of Ca and Alk... assuming the outputs are getting mixed up in the water pretty quickly.