Metal Halide Advice i need

[reeferdeefer]

Whaddya ya'll think of this plan for a six foot 180, 24 inches deep?

Reef Geek Reflectors, 22 x22
Galaxy Selectable Watt Ballasts
Radium SE 20K, 400 watt bulbs

Two of each in an oak canopy (18" high).

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Me...flector_w!_Socket_Assembly_by_Sunlight_Supply

http://socaltropicalfishoutlet.com/catalog/galaxy-selectable-watt-ballast-p-877.html

http://socaltropicalfishoutlet.com/catalog/radium-bulbs-p-273.html

A friend recommended this set up, so if it seems awesome cool. But still I would like some second opinions before I spend the money.

Thanks everybody

 

[Constantin]

i think it might be too much

i think it might be too much

depending on the corals, you might be asking for too much PAR imo, also not sure what you mean by reef geek reflectors.

I have a 36" deep tank and find the PAR of the 400w lights to be too much, actually downgraded to 250w. You should be good with 250w, especially on a 24" tank. with 400w I was getting over 1000 PAR at the top of my tank.

I have the lumenmax elites and the galaxy ballast.

 

[allsps40]

With a 24 inch deep tank I would go with 250s. You will be surprised at how good those reflectors are. Everything else looks good.

 

[reeferdeefer]

depending on the corals, you might be asking for too much PAR imo, also not sure what you mean by reef geek reflectors.

I have a 36" deep tank and find the PAR of the 400w lights to be too much, actually downgraded to 250w. You should be good with 250w, especially on a 24" tank. with 400w I was getting over 1000 PAR at the top of my tank.

I have the lumenmax elites and the galaxy ballast.

Makes sense, but I'm trying to cheat, two 400s instead of three 250s.

My friend has one 400, same setup as I asked about, over a 100g, 18 inch deep tank, 36 long x 36 deep x 18 high. Its in a pendant about 18 inches above the water line, maybe a little more.

His tank looks awesome, but I'm worried about heat in my canopy and excessive evaporation.

 

[reeferdeefer]

With a 24 inch deep tank I would go with 250s. You will be surprised at how good those reflectors are. Everything else looks good.

Thanks for the input. I'll ask my friend again. But I know what he'll say. Just the same I appreciate your advice.

 

[scubasteve06]

You know with two reflectors, even being 400w bulbs I don't know if that will give you more spread of the light coverage which is what I think you are looking for judging by what you said. "I'm trying to cheat with 2 400's instead of 3 250's" Am I right here? Maybe if they are big reflectors you might get the coverage over the 6' that you are looking for, maybe not. As you know 3 250's would ge the job done nicely. With two 400's the spread you have will probably be the same as 2 250's, but just with higher PAR values in that area.

 

[reeferdeefer]

You know with two reflectors, even being 400w bulbs I don't know if that will give you more spread of the light coverage which is what I think you are looking for judging by what you said. "I'm trying to cheat with 2 400's instead of 3 250's" Am I right here? Maybe if they are big reflectors you might get the coverage over the 6' that you are looking for, maybe not. As you know 3 250's would ge the job done nicely. With two 400's the spread you have will probably be the same as 2 250's, but just with higher PAR values in that area.

Yes you are right, but... "Higher par value in that area" ???
Is that good or bad?
Is it an asthetics thing, or will 400s cook my corals?
With strategic placing of corals would 400 be better?

I dont really know what the heck I'm talking about...:hmm3: lol
These are the reflectors I think I want:

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Me...flector_w!_Socket_Assembly_by_Sunlight_Supply

Thanks again

 

[scubasteve06]

Yes you are right, but... "Higher par value in that area" ???
Is that good or bad?
Is it an asthetics thing, or will 400s cook my corals?
With strategic placing of corals would 400 be better?

I dont really know what the heck I'm talking about...:hmm3: lol
These are the reflectors I think I want:

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Me...flector_w!_Socket_Assembly_by_Sunlight_Supply

Thanks again

What I am saying is that with 2 400w vs. 2 250w you will get the same coverage and spread, but with higher PAR with the 400w. The only way I see you gaining spread is if you raise them higher up, which with 400w would give you more reasonable PAR than with 250's raised up. Hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

 

[Alex T.]

I run 400 watt radiums on Galaxy ballasts with no ill effects. Think of it this way....

If you have a 36" deep tank and are growing sps at 12 inches from the surface, what is the difference if it's 24", 36" or 48" deep? The thinking that supports this is flawed. Now, if you wanted to place Tridacnid clams and sps on or close to the sandbed in a 24" inch tank, you'll be much better off with 400 watt bulbs. You're never going to get close to what these corals see in the sunny tropical shallows that they come from.

On the other hand, if your goal is a mixed reef with soft corals, zoanthids and colt corals with a few sps in the mid to upper regions of the tank...250 watts will be fine. Someone mentioned earlier that par at the surface with a 400 watt bulb was close to 1000. This is not out of the ordinary, and is too arbitrary of a statement. What bulb and ballast combo? This can vary greatly. In fact, many corals that reach the surface after acclimating show no ill effects under 400 watt bulbs.

The benefit of a 400 watt bulb over a 250 is also in the kelvin that you can run. Having a 400 watt Radium on Galaxy Ballast can yield the same par with more natural looking blue hue than running a 10K 250 watt bulb that is a little white with some yellow, depending on the bulb/ballast combo.

If your goal is to run 400 watt Radiums on Galaxy ballasts with an SPS dominated tank in mind, you are good to go and will love this combo. I love the way it looks on my 6 foot 150 gallon tank and also run 2 ATI Blue Plus and 2 ATI Purple Plus. :thumbsup:

 

[reeferdeefer]

What I am saying is that with 2 400w vs. 2 250w you will get the same coverage and spread, but with higher PAR with the 400w. The only way I see you gaining spread is if you raise them higher up, which with 400w would give you more reasonable PAR than with 250's raised up. Hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

In my canopy their height is fixed (approx 18"), but you're saying 250s will give me the same spread as 400s. I get it.

So are 20K 400s too much for a 24" deep tank, if they will be 18 inches off the water surface? Is that too much penetration?

Thanks for explaining and being patient.

 

[Alex T.]

Reeferdeefer,

If it's sps you crave, 400 watt bulbs (especially the radium combo you've listed) are awesome. Check out this tank with 400 watt Radiums on PFO HQI ballasts (which yield a higher par than Galaxy 400 watt ballast with Radium) and ask yourself if this is too much light for SPS.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php

 

[reeferdeefer]

I run 400 watt radiums on Galaxy ballasts with no ill effects. Think of it this way....

If you have a 36" deep tank and are growing sps at 12 inches from the surface, what is the difference if it's 24", 36" or 48" deep? The thinking that supports this is flawed. Now, if you wanted to place Tridacnid clams and sps on or close to the sandbed in a 24" inch tank, you'll be much better off with 400 watt bulbs. You're never going to get close to what these corals see in the sunny tropical shallows that they come from.

On the other hand, if your goal is a mixed reef with soft corals, zoanthids and colt corals with a few sps in the mid to upper regions of the tank...250 watts will be fine. Someone mentioned earlier that par at the surface with a 400 watt bulb was close to 1000. This is not out of the ordinary, and is too arbitrary of a statement. What bulb and ballast combo? This can vary greatly. In fact, many corals that reach the surface after acclimating show no ill effects under 400 watt bulbs.

The benefit of a 400 watt bulb over a 250 is also in the kelvin that you can run. Having a 400 watt Radium on Galaxy Ballast can yield the same par with more natural looking blue hue than running a 10K 250 watt bulb that is a little white with some yellow, depending on the bulb/ballast combo.

If your goal is to run 400 watt Radiums on Galaxy ballasts with an SPS dominated tank in mind, you are good to go and will love this combo. I love the way it looks on my 6 foot 150 gallon tank and also run 2 ATI Blue Plus and 2 ATI Purple Plus. :thumbsup:

Thanks Alex. That makes a lot of sense. This is the combo I had in mind.

Lumen Max Horizontal Reflector
Galaxy Selectable Watt Ballasts
Radium SE 20K, 400 watt bulbs

Do you run two or three 400s on your six foot tank? How high from the surface?

Thanks again.

 

[reeferdeefer]

Reeferdeefer,

If it's sps you crave, 400 watt bulbs (especially the radium combo you've listed) are awesome. Check out this tank with 400 watt Radiums on PFO HQI ballasts (which yield a higher par than Galaxy 400 watt ballast with Radium) and ask yourself if this is too much light for SPS.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php

Sheeeeeeeeeez!!! Thanks for that Alex.

ok... decision made. hahahha Thanks guys. This site is the bomb!

Edit
But still any more info is welcome.

 

[reeferdeefer]

I just realized, my canopy is 23.5 inches deep. The reflector I want is 22.5 x 22.5.
I wont have room to add Blue or Purple T5s. Is this even an issue?

Can I squeeze them in under the reflectors. That sounds pretty lame tho.

 

[Alex T.]

My 150 is only 18" wide and I placed the t5's slightly closer to the water under the halide reflector with no problems.

 

[reeferdeefer]

My 150 is only 18" wide and I placed the t5's slightly closer to the water under the halide reflector with no problems.

Cool, thats good news Alex. :dance:
I'm gonna order the reflectors tomorrow, and order the other stuff from
SoCal Tropical Fish when I get paid.

Thanks a million :thumbsup:

 

[JPMagyar]

A little more devil's advocacy . . .

A little more devil's advocacy . . .

I was just over at Keith's house the other day, pickin' up some coral frags so funny someone should mention him. Anyways, if I may be so bold as to say, I will point out that he switched to Radiums after visiting my tank and taking a half dozen frags home most of which ended up in the colony photos in his TOTM spread. 400 watt Radiums are perfect for a 24 inch tank if what you want is to keep purple or blue corals at a depth of up to 12 inches or so, but I will add that I myself am watching LED's carefully because maybe just maybe they will prove to have the PAR necessary for the same job at a fraction of the electrical cost. So if you haven't already spent the money, my advice is take a good long hard look at what's available in the world of LED's before you pull the trigger. I think it's like being at the cusp of a new cycle in computer chip technology. You can find some awesome current technology, but the stuff that's right around the corner MAY be mind blowing.

Now that I've said that I want to reiterate that I LOVE 400 watt Radiums :thumbsup:

Good-luck and be sure to take lots of pics on your progress to share with all us folks on RC!

Joe

 

[Alex T.]

While I am a believer that LED is the future of reef lighting, it's going to be a while. I don't jump on bandwagons that easily, and actually calculated the entry cost of an LED system to what my 400 watt Radiums pull in electrical consumption. Unless prices for LED setups drop DRASTICALLY, the break even point would be in roughly 7 years. I figure by then the kinks may have been worked out, and as with all technology...cost becomes more affordable.

For the time being, halide isn't going anywhere very fast....especially 400 watt Radiums.

 

[reeferdeefer]

I was just over at Keith's house the other day, pickin' up some coral frags so funny someone should mention him. Anyways, if I may be so bold as to say, I will point out that he switched to Radiums after visiting my tank and taking a half dozen frags home most of which ended up in the colony photos in his TOTM spread. 400 watt Radiums are perfect for a 24 inch tank if what you want is to keep purple or blue corals at a depth of up to 12 inches or so, but I will add that I myself am watching LED's carefully because maybe just maybe they will prove to have the PAR necessary for the same job at a fraction of the electrical cost. So if you haven't already spent the money, my advice is take a good long hard look at what's available in the world of LED's before you pull the trigger. I think it's like being at the cusp of a new cycle in computer chip technology. You can find some awesome current technology, but the stuff that's right around the corner MAY be mind blowing.

Now that I've said that I want to reiterate that I LOVE 400 watt Radiums :thumbsup:

Good-luck and be sure to take lots of pics on your progress to share with all us folks on RC!

Joe

I agree with you, but I cant wait. I've got reef fever.

I was going to buy LEDs, but a couple other people told me to wait for the next generation of LEDs. Shoot... By then, I'll have a second tank anyway. lol.

 

[reeferdeefer]

I was just over at Keith's house the other day, pickin' up some coral frags so funny someone should mention him. Anyways, if I may be so bold as to say, I will point out that he switched to Radiums after visiting my tank and taking a half dozen frags home most of which ended up in the colony photos in his TOTM spread. 400 watt Radiums are perfect for a 24 inch tank if what you want is to keep purple or blue corals at a depth of up to 12 inches or so, but I will add that I myself am watching LED's carefully because maybe just maybe they will prove to have the PAR necessary for the same job at a fraction of the electrical cost. So if you haven't already spent the money, my advice is take a good long hard look at what's available in the world of LED's before you pull the trigger. I think it's like being at the cusp of a new cycle in computer chip technology. You can find some awesome current technology, but the stuff that's right around the corner MAY be mind blowing.

Now that I've said that I want to reiterate that I LOVE 400 watt Radiums :thumbsup:

Good-luck and be sure to take lots of pics on your progress to share with all us folks on RC!

Joe

Awesome pic by the way.