method to cycle the tank

[RNhep]

Hi i'm new to this forum and new to this hobby. I've been doing research and watching video about this and i'm still a bit confuse and need some of your success story.

for those use live rocks and live sand: with this i let the tank cycle for 4 to 6 weeks and at the same time cured the rock then measure water and if everything is good i would at my first live stock?
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i'm look to start the tank clean i want to go with this rout
live sand and dry rock: with this i can the clown fish at the same to help cycle the tank for 4 to 6 weeks then starting adding corals?

i'm still unsure with how to approach which way to cycle the tank.
Thanks

 

[MondoBongo]

first and foremost:

DO NOT use any live animals for your cycle. the ammonia and nitrites produced during the cycle are TOXIC and can kill, or severely injure animals. it's cruel and painful to use live animals for your cycle.

two options not involving live animals, ghost feeding/raw shrimp from the deli, or dosing pure ammonia. both of these work well, and will not harm any living creatures. i like dosing the pure ammonia since it is easy to get very accurate amounts, but both methods will produce the same results.

don't bother with live sand, it's a waste of money. it's been sealed in a bag for lord knows how long. get dry sand, and rinse it thoroughly before adding to the tank.

if it were me, i would start with all dry sand, mostly dry rock, and a small amount of live rock to seed the bacteria.

then i would begin an ammonia dosing and testing regimen. you want to dose the ammonia up to 2PPM and then wait for it to fall close to 0. when you can process 2PPM ammonia in to nitrite and then to nitrate in 24 hours (that means ammonia AND nitrite are both 0. not close to 0, not almost 0, not sort of 0, but 0), you're ready to add your first residents, which should be a lightly stocked clean up crew (hermits, snails, shrimp, etc...) feed your clean up crew (aka CUC) small amounts to keep your bio-filter and your clean up crew fed, nori and pellets work great for this.

while adding your clean up crew, it's not a bad time to get your first fish started through quarantine (you are going to quarantine, right?)

 

[bshow24]

Welcome to RC!

One piece of advice....go as slow as you possibly can at all times. If you move too fast in this hobby, bad things happen.

Now, cycle is a relatively simple yet at the same time complex process.

Either way your cycle is going to take time. Put your rock/sand into the tank, fill it with water, and let everything run. Continue to test it every week to see what the levels are, and once you have no ammonia or nitrites, do a water change and start adding some fish. Usually takes about 4-6 weeks. Read the forums some more, see what other reefers did during their cycles, but the one thing to remember is BE PATIENT.

Corals - don't add any for at least a few months, and when you start to, add softies. Harder corals you won't want to get into until at least 6 months in, sometimes even a year. I know it sounds like a pain, but it's a lot easier waiting that time than spending money on beautiful items that end up perishing a week later.

To get some information, what kind of tank/equipment do you have? Size, dimensions, lights, etc?

Patience is a virtue, but if you have patience, you'll also reap the rewards of this amazing and addictive hobby.

 

[bshow24]

(you are going to quarantine, right?)

I knew I forgot something. Make sure you quarantine fish to make sure they are healthy. Nothing worse than getting everything setup and putting a sick fish into the tank and having to go fallow for another 6 weeks.

Mondo gave you some great, detailed advice. I'd follow it to a T.

 

[RNhep]

first and foremost:

DO NOT use any live animals for your cycle. the ammonia and nitrites produced during the cycle are TOXIC and can kill, or severely injure animals. it's cruel and painful to use live animals for your cycle.

two options not involving live animals, ghost feeding/raw shrimp from the deli, or dosing pure ammonia. both of these work well, and will not harm any living creatures. i like dosing the pure ammonia since it is easy to get very accurate amounts, but both methods will produce the same results.

don't bother with live sand, it's a waste of money. it's been sealed in a bag for lord knows how long. get dry sand, and rinse it thoroughly before adding to the tank.

if it were me, i would start with all dry sand, mostly dry rock, and a small amount of live rock to seed the bacteria.

then i would begin an ammonia dosing and testing regimen. you want to dose the ammonia up to 2PPM and then wait for it to fall close to 0. when you can process 2PPM ammonia in to nitrite and then to nitrate in 24 hours (that means ammonia AND nitrite are both 0. not close to 0, not almost 0, not sort of 0, but 0), you're ready to add your first residents, which should be a lightly stocked clean up crew (hermits, snails, shrimp, etc...) feed your clean up crew (aka CUC) small amounts to keep your bio-filter and your clean up crew fed, nori and pellets work great for this.

while adding your clean up crew, it's not a bad time to get your first fish started through quarantine (you are going to quarantine, right?)

Thank you for your fast reply, i see lot of comment about inhumane using fish to cycle the tank and will not chose that way. I thought i ask if this way. i'll follow your advice to setup the tank. the ammonia dosing is a form of liquid chemical?

while adding your clean up crew, it's not a bad time to get your first fish started through quarantine (you are going to quarantine, right?)

this new too me so i didn't know until you mentioned it. what step do i need to get the quarantine tank started? do i use the establish water for the main tank with power head and heater and let the fish stay in there for few days?

 

[RNhep]

Welcome to RC!

One piece of advice....go as slow as you possibly can at all times. If you move too fast in this hobby, bad things happen.

Now, cycle is a relatively simple yet at the same time complex process.

Either way your cycle is going to take time. Put your rock/sand into the tank, fill it with water, and let everything run. Continue to test it every week to see what the levels are, and once you have no ammonia or nitrites, do a water change and start adding some fish. Usually takes about 4-6 weeks. Read the forums some more, see what other reefers did during their cycles, but the one thing to remember is BE PATIENT.

Corals - don't add any for at least a few months, and when you start to, add softies. Harder corals you won't want to get into until at least 6 months in, sometimes even a year. I know it sounds like a pain, but it's a lot easier waiting that time than spending money on beautiful items that end up perishing a week later.

To get some information, what kind of tank/equipment do you have? Size, dimensions, lights, etc?

Patience is a virtue, but if you have patience, you'll also reap the rewards of this amazing and addictive hobby.

Thanks for the advice:
I have a 29gallons tank from my fresh water that not being use right now. still have my heater and air pump they are fairly brand new and i have eco 396 water pump that use with D.I.Y canister filter. Other wise i still need to pick up power head, refuguim and skimmer. i'm not ready to setup the tank yet i want to gather as much as information before i start.

 

[MondoBongo]

Thank you for your fast reply, i see lot of comment about inhumane using fish to cycle the tank and will not chose that way. I thought i ask if this way. i'll follow your advice to setup the tank. the ammonia dosing is a form of liquid chemical?

you've got some options here. i'm going to assume you're located in the US, so correct me if i'm wrong, but most US hardware stores will sell pure ammonia, make sure whatever you get is just ammonia, no soaps, dyes, or surfactants should be listed on the label. you can use this to bring your ammonia numbers up by dosing some of it to the tank, then waiting a little bit and testing, until you find the right amount for your water volume. there are probably also some more detailed instructions on the board here if you look around.

the other option is using something like Dr. Tim's Ammonia Chloride to provide your ammonia source. you can order from a variety of places, like amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/DrTims-Aquatics-Ammonium-chloride-bottle/dp/B006MP4QG6

or, if you don't want to use either of those, try using something decomposing like raw shrimp:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1990876

this new too me so i didn't know until you mentioned it. what step do i need to get the quarantine tank started? do i use the establish water for the main tank with power head and heater and let the fish stay in there for few days?

i like using Tank Transfer Method (aka TTM) followed by an observation period of 5 weeks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388428

now i will fully admit that this is a good bit of work, especially for someone just starting out, so my advice is to check out the different options for quarantine, and decide what is going to be the most reasonable course of action for your setup.

there is less risk when you're just starting out, since you don't have any fish yet, but ich/velvet/brook/etc... suck to deal with at any time, so in this case an ounce of prevention can be worth a pound of cure.

when i was starting out my QT system was just another tank i setup and left cycled. i would leave new introductions in there for a few months and observe them, get them eating, etc. before promoting them to the main system.

as i got more fish, and more delicate fish, i started looking for more robust QT protocols, and came upon TTM.

no matter what QT protocol you choose, make sure you keep a close eye on the water params. ammonia, nitrite, and salinity specifically. you can use things like large, regular water changes, and an ammonia locker product like SeaChem Prime or AmQuel to help keep your water quality up.

 

[gallegos]

Ok so this is what I do. I have done new tanks to many times to count. You can start of with live or dry rock. What I do is add 99% dry rock and add a small piece of live rock to seed it. Same with sand. Let it cycle! Don't add ammonia to your tank. Don't add any type of harsh chemicals! I usually add a small bottle of bacteria. My choice is stability from seachem. That will jump start your cycle. Test once a week till ammonia and nitrite are testing 0 and nitrate is less then 20ppm. Important not to do any water changes during this process. At this time you should start to see some diatom algae. Now you can astart to add some clean up crew. Not all your cleanup crew as if you put too much they will just starve to death and that's wasted money so a few snails will do. Now you can add your first fish. As the others said it is best to have quarantine all your live stock. This prevents the accidental introduction of pests and diseases. Now test your water and start doing weekly 10% water changes. Once your nitrates drop to 10ppm or less you can v start to add some corals. Softies is what I would recommend as a start. As far as equipment you do not want to use a canister or a wet/dry for filtration. You want to use a sump and if you can afford use a sump/refugium. You also want to use a good skimmer. I recommend to use the biggest that will fit your sump. Your skimmer should be rated to 1.5X your tank size. This will get you going for about a year or so then we can start looking at better lights and so.

 

[gallegos]

Please don't add ammonia to your tank. Your rock can absorb it. I don't know who though of this and told people it's OK to do. I know people who's tank would show ammonia spikes months after the cycle was done and the only thing they have in common was cycling with pure ammonia. Go slow! Pouring that stuff in your tank is just trying to rush nature. Remember what your trying to do in replicate nature. We don't pour ammonia in the ocean

 

[MondoBongo]

Please don't add ammonia to your tank. Your rock can absorb it. I don't know who though of this and told people it's OK to do. I know people who's tank would show ammonia spikes months after the cycle was done and the only thing they have in common was cycling with pure ammonia. Go slow! Pouring that stuff in your tank is just trying to rush nature. Remember what your trying to do in replicate nature. We don't pour ammonia in the ocean

that is demonstrably untrue. adding ammonia to your tank to cycle is chemically no different than the ammonia excreted by fish in their waste.

many, many, many people use this method, myself included, to cycle their tanks with no issues whatsoever. the "people you know" are likely making other mistakes, and blaming the cycle dosing.

correlation does not necessarily equal causality.

 

[JeffyT]

Slow and Steady wins this race. If you want to save a lot of time and money I would just do research. I use to think coming to these forums and asking for advice in a subject so broad was the fastest method for obtaining information. But there is too much to take in all at once, and too much information for a thread response. There are TONS of sticky's that i've read here that have been great for tank starters and new hobbyist.

- Understanding Water Chemistry
- Understanding Your Tank Inhabitants and planning for them.
- Mapping the equipment you need
- Acclimating your live stock
- Feeding your live stock

You have 4-6 weeks to cycle if you used the correct cycling material. If you want a quick cycle, i recommend you hop onto youtube. Look up Dr. Tim's tank cycling with Mr. Saltwater Tv, check out his explanation of what his product is and how it works.

For me, i use established tank water from a fellow hobbyist tank, some of his Marine Pure Cubes from his sump, a bottle of Dr Tims and let the tank cycle for about 2 weeks. It works for me, everyone's tanks are different.

I suggest you go the newbie route and cycle for 2 months, no fish, no lights, no carbon and remember to turn off your skimmer for 2 full days after you've added your Denitrifying bacteria.

And with all that spare time, create a log or journal of all your planned purchases. I log everything so that I can go back and see where I made mistakes or for other hobbyist to identify if a step I made was a mistake.

Happy Reefing!

 

[gone fishin]

that is demonstrably untrue. adding ammonia to your tank to cycle is chemically no different than the ammonia excreted by fish in their waste.

many, many, many people use this method, myself included, to cycle their tanks with no issues whatsoever. the "people you know" are likely making other mistakes, and blaming the cycle dosing.

correlation does not necessarily equal causality.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Take a look at the link it is full of good info. It is found at the top of this forum, look for the big red arrow.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

 

[RNhep]

Ok so this is what I do. I have done new tanks to many times to count. You can start of with live or dry rock. What I do is add 99% dry rock and add a small piece of live rock to seed it. Same with sand. Let it cycle! Don't add ammonia to your tank. Don't add any type of harsh chemicals! I usually add a small bottle of bacteria. My choice is stability from seachem. That will jump start your cycle. Test once a week till ammonia and nitrite are testing 0 and nitrate is less then 20ppm. Important not to do any water changes during this process. At this time you should start to see some diatom algae. Now you can astart to add some clean up crew. Not all your cleanup crew as if you put too much they will just starve to death and that's wasted money so a few snails will do. Now you can add your first fish. As the others said it is best to have quarantine all your live stock. This prevents the accidental introduction of pests and diseases. Now test your water and start doing weekly 10% water changes. Once your nitrates drop to 10ppm or less you can v start to add some corals. Softies is what I would recommend as a start. As far as equipment you do not want to use a canister or a wet/dry for filtration. You want to use a sump and if you can afford use a sump/refugium. You also want to use a good skimmer. I recommend to use the biggest that will fit your sump. Your skimmer should be rated to 1.5X your tank size. This will get you going for about a year or so then we can start looking at better lights and so.

Thank you and i will take as much as info before I start. During tank cylce i dont need light and skimmer just the powerhead is thwt correct?

 

[RNhep]

I suggest you go the newbie route and cycle for 2 months, no fish, no lights, no carbon and remember to turn off your skimmer for 2 full days after you've added your Denitrifying bacteria.

Happy Reefing!

I've been reaseaching and get a good ideas but there are part of it i dont really fully understand like cycle the tank is one of it. There are lot of info and video but they all suggest differently. I want to be fully understand so i dont wast 4 to 6 week with a bad tank lol.
So your saying during cycle us a skimmer? Is that due to i add clean up crew after ammonia nitrite and nitrate are saft? But not everything else until 2 months then add first fist or coral.

 

[crocogator106]

first and foremost:

if it were me, i would start with all dry sand, mostly dry rock, and a small amount of live rock to seed the bacteria.

then i would begin an ammonia dosing and testing regimen. you want to dose the ammonia up to 2PPM and then wait for it to fall close to 0. when you can process 2PPM ammonia in to nitrite and then to nitrate in 24 hours (that means ammonia AND nitrite are both 0. not close to 0, not almost 0, not sort of 0, but 0), you're ready to add your first residents, which should be a lightly stocked clean up crew (hermits, snails, shrimp, etc...) feed your clean up crew (aka CUC) small amounts to keep your bio-filter and your clean up crew fed, nori and pellets work great for this.

while adding your clean up crew, it's not a bad time to get your first fish started through quarantine (you are going to quarantine, right?)

Exactly the way I'm doing mine and its worked out great!

 

[zelie_dad]

Ace Hardware is the only place that I could find that sells 10% pure ammonia. It worked great for my cycle.

The biggest mistake I made, if it's a mistake at all, was dosing my tank up to 2ppm of ammonia when I was testing 0, but still had nitrites. This caused me to have an excess of nitrate. Once my system could process 2 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours and my nitrites were at 0 as well, I considered my tank cycled. I did a large water change to bring down the nitrates, and off I went.

What I should have done was dose it up to 2ppm when both ammonia and nitrites were at 0, instead of just ammonia.

 

[CindyK]

So you run the skimmer during your cycle? Why would you run the skimmer if there's nothing in the tank producing waste yet?

I guess I thought the purpose of the cycle was to allow bacteria to get a good strong foothold and develop a natural balance, then the skimmer was added later to handle the wastes produced by fish and coral that the bacteria can't handle on it's own, removing excess waste before it could become algae food.

 

[MondoBongo]

So you run the skimmer during your cycle? Why would you run the skimmer if there's nothing in the tank producing waste yet?

I guess I thought the purpose of the cycle was to allow bacteria to get a good strong foothold and develop a natural balance, then the skimmer was added later to handle the wastes produced by fish and coral that the bacteria can't handle on it's own, removing excess waste before it could become algae food.

You're right, it is. Lots of dissolved organic compounds get pulled out by skimming.

Running it or not running it during a cycle is kind of a coin flip. There's not really any huge benefits to it, but there's also no real downsides.

If I have a new skimmer on a new tank I like to run the skimmer during the cycle because it takes skimmers some time, up to a couple weeks, to get settled in and start reliably skimming. It also helps oxygenate the water, and let's you get familiar with how the equipment works, and what kind of adjustments you can make.

Personal preference really.

 

[CindyK]

You're right, it is. Lots of dissolved organic compounds get pulled out by skimming.

Running it or not running it during a cycle is kind of a coin flip. There's not really any huge benefits to it, but there's also no real downsides.

If I have a new skimmer on a new tank I like to run the skimmer during the cycle because it takes skimmers some time, up to a couple weeks, to get settled in and start reliably skimming. It also helps oxygenate the water, and let's you get familiar with how the equipment works, and what kind of adjustments you can make.

Personal preference really.

Thanks for the input! Those reasons make a lot of sense.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[heathlindner25]

You could always drink a beer after you're done setting it up and pee in it.... that works too
That's only if you don't want to run to the store....lol