Minimum tank size for a legit school of yellow tangs

[geaux xman]

whats really hard is QT-ing all those fish. adding that many fish without QT, its only a matter of time before ich is introduce to the tank, especially dealing with a bunch of tangs. if it does happen, you'll probably have to end up treating the tank with copper. it would be impossible to catch that many fish to QT and let the tank sit fallow. if you do have to treat the tank, then that throws out the shrimp idea.

setting up this tank is a huge project. think it over long and hard. with that many fish, this is many times more difficult than an ordinary 200-300g tank. .

check with guys like copps and chrris(600g FOWLR), they QT every fish for a month or more with prophylactic treatments of copper, prazi, etc. i do the same with my few angels, and believe me, its A LOT of work.

are you ready to do something similar QT-wise with 10-15 tangs and a ton of your other livestock?

spending money is the easy part in this hobby IMO. its the getting everything to work successfully long term is the hard part.

jumping from a 75g to an 800g is nuts IMO. i think try a 3-500g first with not such a daunting livestock task. not to be negative, but just something to think about.

 

[snorvich]

They certainly look like they school everytime I see them grazing in a group!

They will group, but they will not school. Since this issue comes up so frequently on Reef Central, some additional information might be useful. An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.

If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behavior such as swimming, so as to remain close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.

If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organized, with the fish synchronizing their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated maneuvers, as though the schools as a whole have minds of their own.

Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.[1] The intricacies of schooling are far from fully understood, especially the swimming and feeding energetics. Many hypotheses to explain the function of schooling have been suggested, such as better orientation, synchronized hunting, predator confusion and reduced risk of being found. Schooling also has disadvantages, such as excretion buildup in the breathing media and oxygen and food depletion. The way the fish array in the school probably gives energy saving advantages, though this is controversial.

Fish can be obligate or facultative shoalers. Obligate shoalers, such as tunas, herrings and anchovy, spend all of their time shoaling or schooling, and become agitated if separated from the group. Facultative shoalers, such as Atlantic cod, saiths and some carangids, shoal only some of the time, perhaps for reproductive purposes.

Shoaling fish can shift into a disciplined and coordinated school, then shift back to an amorphous shoal within seconds. Such shifts are triggered by changes of activity from feeding, resting, traveling or avoiding predators.

Probably more than you wanted to know! :headwallblue:

 

[snorvich]

Any issues with the angels and cleaner or fire shrimp?

No problem whatsoever.

 

[D5HP]

whats really hard is QT-ing all those fish. adding that many fish without QT, its only a matter of time before ich is introduce to the tank, especially dealing with a bunch of tangs. if it does happen, you'll probably have to end up treating the tank with copper. it would be impossible to catch that many fish to QT and let the tank sit fallow. if you do have to treat the tank, then that throws out the shrimp idea.

setting up this tank is a huge project. think it over long and hard. with that many fish, this is many times more difficult than an ordinary 200-300g tank. .

check with guys like copps and chrris(600g FOWLR), they QT every fish for a month or more with prophylactic treatments of copper, prazi, etc. i do the same with my few angels, and believe me, its A LOT of work.

are you ready to do something similar QT-wise with 10-15 tangs and a ton of your other livestock?

spending money is the easy part in this hobby IMO. its the getting everything to work successfully long term is the hard part.

jumping from a 75g to an 800g is nuts IMO. i think try a 3-500g first with not such a daunting livestock task. not to be negative, but just something to think about.

First --> you're not coming off as negative. I come here for advice first and the encouragement is a welcomed second. I genuinely appreciate all the comments and ideas even when they are direct disagreement with me.

As for QT'ing each fish...yes that will suck! I've had to treat sick fish and it's never fun. I just purchased a 40B today as another QT for the 75g for the future additions there. A minimum four week period will be used not only for disease but for feeding, observation of eating habits, etc.

With such a large system I do not expect to stock it overnight. I envision at least two separate QT tanks, potentially four. I plan on purchasing all the fish (not just the tangs and angels) as very small juveniles making the QT period a little less crowded. Ideally I'd be able to introduce all the tangs to the DT at once. Now, I had thought about making a section in the sump or the display fuge that would enable me to catch fish easily so I could slowly migrate fish into the system and allow the tank to sort of "catch up" with all the added waste + food. That way I could move fish out of QT, into the main system but not allow them to establish territory in the DT.

I have been told that such a huge jump is insane by a few other locals I've discussed this idea with. Truthfully, it is. 300g of water in your home is insane too! No real way of getting around that one folks :bounce1:

I just see so many people that have been in the hobby for long periods of time go from a 55 to a 90 to a 125 to a 180 to a 300 and STILL WANT MORE SPACE. I love my reef but what keeps me in the hobby is the fish.

I don't want to spend all that money and the other half won't allow that many tanks. If I can consolidate everything into a single room and spend a year building something I am totally down for it. It's either this or a motorcycle or a new jeep build...and since I work from home I'd be able to enjoy this tank at least 10 hours a day (will be in the office). I don't travel too much.

I think a year build schedule and a $10k build budget is optimistic but not hopelessly so. That will let me put about $4k into it at first and slowly buy things as the room and system progress. I can build just about anything, so I'm sure I'll save some money there.

I agree with the long term success especially when designing a tank this large, as it will be a huge project just to tear it down in order to remove it if necessary. I will have at least 6 months of planning before I buy the first piece of plywood.

I trust I'll get plenty of great advice...thanks again.

They will group, but they will not school. Since this issue comes up so frequently on Reef Central, some additional information might be useful. An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.

If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behavior such as swimming, so as to remain close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.

If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organized, with the fish synchronizing their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated maneuvers, as though the schools as a whole have minds of their own.

Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.[1] The intricacies of schooling are far from fully understood, especially the swimming and feeding energetics. Many hypotheses to explain the function of schooling have been suggested, such as better orientation, synchronized hunting, predator confusion and reduced risk of being found. Schooling also has disadvantages, such as excretion buildup in the breathing media and oxygen and food depletion. The way the fish array in the school probably gives energy saving advantages, though this is controversial.

Fish can be obligate or facultative shoalers. Obligate shoalers, such as tunas, herrings and anchovy, spend all of their time shoaling or schooling, and become agitated if separated from the group. Facultative shoalers, such as Atlantic cod, saiths and some carangids, shoal only some of the time, perhaps for reproductive purposes.

Shoaling fish can shift into a disciplined and coordinated school, then shift back to an amorphous shoal within seconds. Such shifts are triggered by changes of activity from feeding, resting, traveling or avoiding predators.

Probably more than you wanted to know! :headwallblue:

No problem whatsoever.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet :celeb3:

 

[D5HP]

This will be quite interesting to follow long term as he is housing a lot of the fish I'm interested in keeping:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1930420&page=5

 

[Moort82]

There's a guy over here that has a 12ft tank and i think about 35 tangs. Its something like 15 yellows, 9 purples, kole, lipstick, a trio of regals, carribean blue,powder blue and some i can't remember.

Anyway here's a youtube vid of the tank in question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhEbPsHhCSM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I can also forward where to find his tank if thats allowed.

 

[D5HP]

There's a guy over here that has a 12ft tank and i think about 35 tangs. Its something like 15 yellows, 9 purples, kole, lipstick, a trio of regals, carribean blue,powder blue and some i can't remember.

Anyway here's a youtube vid of the tank in question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhEbPsHhCSM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I can also forward where to find his tank if thats allowed.

Shoot me a PM?

EDIT: That tank is unreal! Exactly what I want with those yellows!

 

[Moort82]

You have mail:wave:

 

[echoreef]

This is my video of the Sea World's Turtle Reef exhibit. It is a 300,000 gallon aquarium. From what I can tell, yellow tangs do school in these large public aquariums. I imagine they would do the same in the ocean.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvdp9R59CgI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvdp9R59CgI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

 

[thelizardkin]

I have 3 in a 400 gallon and I had a purple but it's been in the overflow for the last few months I don't have any issue with fidgeting also I've never qt'ind a fish I've had ich but I did'nt lose one fish I also had a Cbb for about a year that eats like a pig

 

[Ethan Music]

This is my video of the Sea World's Turtle Reef exhibit. It is a 300,000 gallon aquarium. From what I can tell, yellow tangs do school in these large public aquariums. I imagine they would do the same in the ocean.

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvdp9R59CgI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvdp9R59CgI&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Thanks for sharing it was like a yellow brick road never ending line of yellow tangs!!