Hi all I'm soon setting up my new tank 72x24x30 high it will have a 54x18x15 high sump which I got made to house a pre filter skimmer and mud as time has pasted I'm not sure weather to go with mud or not as I'm not putting live rock in the show tank it will have reef rock the idea is to keep any bad boys away from my LPS I'm now thinking should I just go with live rock in the sump or rock and mud any input would be great cheers in advance. PETE
Miracle Mud
- Thread starter Pete68
- Start date
Crooked Reef
Active member
I have used it before and didn't notice a difference from when I ran mud and when I did not.
I don't know of any reason to use mud. 
codyreed29
New member
I would use it and plan to.
I used sand in my refugium and macros mangrove from south padre island.
When I added the stuff my corals looked better. Have heard the mud is good stuff.
I am going to builf a one hundred gallon tank next and will only use a 40 breeder all refugium live rock miracle mud sand many macros mangroves with a strong light like 150 watt mh.
I used sand in my refugium and macros mangrove from south padre island.
When I added the stuff my corals looked better. Have heard the mud is good stuff.
I am going to builf a one hundred gallon tank next and will only use a 40 breeder all refugium live rock miracle mud sand many macros mangroves with a strong light like 150 watt mh.
When I added the stuff my corals looked better.
What do you think it did that helped your corals?
Have heard the mud is good stuff.
Most people here would disagree, as best I can tell. Just search on mud threads to see.
What do you think it did that helped your corals?
Have heard the mud is good stuff.
Most people here would disagree, as best I can tell. Just search on mud threads to see.
codyreed29
New member
Look up ling's system as well as mike paletta. They have been in the game for years and use the muds. They are some old school reefers. Also julian sprung doesn't use a skimmer uses a refugium only.
Just do some reasearch
More open polyps and better colors. Looked better
Just do some reasearch
More open polyps and better colors. Looked better
The Miracle here is that people still buy it after all these years. Two separate individual assays of the product showed what it actually is, and it isn't even of oceanic origin.
If you are curious what is in it, follow the links, it should help people decide if they want to blindly follow a marketing ploy.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...igxK0N&usg=AFQjCNGY8kPuddJ-YrSPVa_vDW_zJHRfUw
The conclusions pretty much tell the story.
"The analysis indicates that Miracle Mud is 30% silicon. This mostly likely exists in Miracle Mud as silicon dioxide, which is most commonly found in nature as quartz. As pointed out by chemist Randy Holmes-Farley, the molecular weight of silicon makes up less than half the molecular weight of silicon dioxide. So if the silicon present is all in the form of silicon dioxide, then Miracle Mud is more than 63% quartz sand. This seems to be confirmed by the photos.
The high levels of metals (especially Aluminum, Iron and Titanium) are also a point of concern.
In addition, no traces of any marine sediment were found in any microscopic examination - no oolitic sand grains, no shell fragments, no diatoms or any other remnants of marine life. An acid test...indicates that no carbonates are present in Miracle Mud. It is difficult to reconcile these facts with the manufacturer's claim that "Miracle Mud is 80% oceanic mud."
The product can have legitimate uses, such as a Seagrass bed where the iron in it can be beneficial. For a reef tank, the value is significantly less. The stories you hear of people claiming results from using it are amusing. It is a safe bet that they would have the same results if they had not used it, their husbandry is responsible for their success, not a "miracle". Many people who used it for years noted no difference in the health of their system after removing it. This makes sense as the product is mostly quartz.
Use it if it makes you feel like you are gaining some advantage from it but consider that only the people selling it have the advantage, they got your money and provided you with virtually nothing beneficial.
If you are curious what is in it, follow the links, it should help people decide if they want to blindly follow a marketing ploy.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...igxK0N&usg=AFQjCNGY8kPuddJ-YrSPVa_vDW_zJHRfUw
The conclusions pretty much tell the story.
"The analysis indicates that Miracle Mud is 30% silicon. This mostly likely exists in Miracle Mud as silicon dioxide, which is most commonly found in nature as quartz. As pointed out by chemist Randy Holmes-Farley, the molecular weight of silicon makes up less than half the molecular weight of silicon dioxide. So if the silicon present is all in the form of silicon dioxide, then Miracle Mud is more than 63% quartz sand. This seems to be confirmed by the photos.
The high levels of metals (especially Aluminum, Iron and Titanium) are also a point of concern.
In addition, no traces of any marine sediment were found in any microscopic examination - no oolitic sand grains, no shell fragments, no diatoms or any other remnants of marine life. An acid test...indicates that no carbonates are present in Miracle Mud. It is difficult to reconcile these facts with the manufacturer's claim that "Miracle Mud is 80% oceanic mud."
The product can have legitimate uses, such as a Seagrass bed where the iron in it can be beneficial. For a reef tank, the value is significantly less. The stories you hear of people claiming results from using it are amusing. It is a safe bet that they would have the same results if they had not used it, their husbandry is responsible for their success, not a "miracle". Many people who used it for years noted no difference in the health of their system after removing it. This makes sense as the product is mostly quartz.
Use it if it makes you feel like you are gaining some advantage from it but consider that only the people selling it have the advantage, they got your money and provided you with virtually nothing beneficial.
davocean
Active member
A few years ago I added it to a very established tank hearing how "I gotta have this stuff to boost my fuge and pods"
It took my crystal clear tank that needed almost nothing to keep glass clean and turned the water green, and film algae that needed to be scrubbed daily.
I hated it, pulled it a few weeks later and in a week or two my tank went back to normal.
This was my exp w/ mud, I know I'll never use it again, and wonder why I even did.
You can get all you need out of a fuge w/ chaeto and LR rubble.
It took my crystal clear tank that needed almost nothing to keep glass clean and turned the water green, and film algae that needed to be scrubbed daily.
I hated it, pulled it a few weeks later and in a week or two my tank went back to normal.
This was my exp w/ mud, I know I'll never use it again, and wonder why I even did.
You can get all you need out of a fuge w/ chaeto and LR rubble.
Everything that I've been able to find out about MM tells me tht it really isn't any advantage. Not worth the cost.
All it is, is just a base soil for the macro algae.
Raise Chaetomorpha and you will have no need for over priced dirt!
That's just MHO from the things that I've been able to research.
All it is, is just a base soil for the macro algae.
Raise Chaetomorpha and you will have no need for over priced dirt!
That's just MHO from the things that I've been able to research.
ReeferBill
New member
After reading Randys post and davoceans experience with the mmmmmud I am convinced.
Just do some reasearch
Why didn't I think of that??
Oh, I forgot, I did. That's how I came to the conclusion that it is not apparent to me that there is a benefit over other sorts of similar systems. A refugium works perfectly well without mud. I've counted and there are 432,543 different but effective ways to run a reef aquarium. Some of those have mud in them. Most do not.
You do realize that Leng makes money by selling such systems, don't you? That would hardly make him an unbiased supporter. I realize you didn't explicitly clam that Julian uses miracle mud, but do you believe that he currently has a reef aquarium using miracle mud?
Why didn't I think of that??
Oh, I forgot, I did. That's how I came to the conclusion that it is not apparent to me that there is a benefit over other sorts of similar systems. A refugium works perfectly well without mud. I've counted and there are 432,543 different but effective ways to run a reef aquarium. Some of those have mud in them. Most do not.
You do realize that Leng makes money by selling such systems, don't you? That would hardly make him an unbiased supporter. I realize you didn't explicitly clam that Julian uses miracle mud, but do you believe that he currently has a reef aquarium using miracle mud?
ReeferBill
New member
Just do the Reaseach!!!!!
Just do the Reaseach!!!!!
Randy you did say just that 7 posts before !!!!:dance:
Just do the Reaseach!!!!!
Randy you did say just that 7 posts before !!!!:dance:
leveldrummer
New member
HAHA, I love it, Google that guys name that you responded to. :celeb1:
Any added benefits that the MM has over any other Mud is negligable. Not worth the money IMHO!
It may do marginally better because it has some minerals.
But MM or no MM? You will need additives that will have a wider range of benefits that already have those minerals in them, at a fraction of the cost. You'll need the additives because the suporting of "Life" depletes those elements.
It may do marginally better because it has some minerals.
But MM or no MM? You will need additives that will have a wider range of benefits that already have those minerals in them, at a fraction of the cost. You'll need the additives because the suporting of "Life" depletes those elements.
biologicalme
New member
No mud! I used it for a bit and had a huge cyano outbreak, I controlled that but then had a bit of hair algae. Everything was fine and my testing always showed 0nitrates 0 phosphates. It wasn't until I removed the mud that I realized how nasty that stuff is. It literally smelled like sh**! And I haven't had algae problems since. My coral all look the same if not better. Save your money.
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