Mixing salt in tank on a new setup?

[Etoimos]

You could bring the can upstairs and hook your RO/DI unit up to the sink temporarily to do the initial fill.

With the cold water temps and low water pressure I have here in CO, it takes a very long time for my RO/DI to produce the water needed to fill the tank from empty. The wife is not going to approve of that setup sitting out in the open for that long.

How do you plan on doing water changes if you're making the water in the basement and need to move it to the second floor?

For water changes, I can use the same pump in question to pump the new water up to the tank or I could simply fill two 5 gallon containers and carry those upstairs. I'm not so concerned about routine water changes as I am the initial fill and any large cycle/emergency large water changes needed.

If there is not an alternative to the Mag 12, I'll get one. I just thought that someone on the site might have a cheaper, kickoff of pump, that they could point me to.

 

[gquimby1]

Just go to Menards or lowes and buy a sump pump. Get you some tubing to go with it and a clamp for the fitting on the pump and boom you've spent 60 bucks and you also have something for if your basement ever floods

 

[Etoimos]

Just go to Menards or lowes and buy a sump pump. Get you some tubing to go with it and a clamp for the fitting on the pump and boom you've spent 60 bucks and you also have something for if your basement ever floods

Good thinking.

 

[Etoimos]

Any issues with a plain old sump pump and salt water though?

 

[TYC]

for the initial setup, u can just spend the $ on bottled water from supermarket instead of buying a sump pump and tubing it all the way from basement (potential water leak all over the house while filling tank). $ wise it would be same amount as a sump but less risk and less work then setting up a sump pump. Then going forward it'll be a hassle but doing 10% water change (i.e. one or two 5-gallon water jugs from basement) is no big deal, i had same set up in my previous house. Good exercise & good for your body.

As far as ROI system being slow, I'd look into installing an AquaticLife Smart Buddie to speed up the water production. I got one and now my ROI produces water at 2x if not 3x the previous speed with less waste too. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4395+30170&pcatid=30170

 

[Etoimos]

I went by Lowes yesterday to look into the sump pump idea. The cheapest one they had was $90 and has a 1.5" output. After buying fittings to step it down to a more reasonable tubing size, it be well over $100. Since the cost saving are not that great and the fact that the sump pump is oil filled, I decided that this route is not the best option.

for the initial setup, u can just spend the $ on bottled water from supermarket instead of buying a sump pump and tubing it all the way from basement (potential water leak all over the house while filling tank). $ wise it would be same amount as a sump but less risk and less work then setting up a sump pump. Then going forward it'll be a hassle but doing 10% water change (i.e. one or two 5-gallon water jugs from basement) is no big deal, i had same set up in my previous house. Good exercise & good for your body.

Yeah, I totally don't mind carrying a couple of 5 gallon containers of water up for normal 10% water changes. It is the larger changes that it become problematic. I can keep enough saltwater on hand for larger changes, but I don't really want to invest in multiple 5 gallon containers to transport it in. While I can just refill the one that I have multiple times, I'm concerned that might not be the best option in an emergency. Then again, my lack of experience might just be making worry about such a situation too much.

As far as ROI system being slow, I'd look into installing an AquaticLife Smart Buddie to speed up the water production. I got one and now my ROI produces water at 2x if not 3x the previous speed with less waste too. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4395+30170&pcatid=30170

Thanks TYC. I have looked into booster pumps, but have decided to wait and see for now. My current RO/DI system can make about 25 gallons in two days (not running when I'm not home as I don't have a float switch to cut if off when full). So time is not a factor on normal water change production. I'll pretty much always have 25 gallons of saltwater on hand.

 

[TYC]

when I moved, I decided to get a larger tank. Unfortunately the new house wasn't ready in time for me to setup the new tank prior to our move. So due to time constraint bc I had to move the contents of my existing tank, I went and purchased spring water (appx 40 gals) from supermarket and used that. Wasn't fun opening all those 1-gallon jugs but was much quicker than waiting for the RODI water.

For a 60 gal tank (which was my previous tank), your regular water change would only be 10% so figure 6 gallons per change. Not much. Typically you would not have to do large water changes after tank has been established unless there's a crash or tank husbandry has been ignored. I used a 20-gal Brute to mix salt water in basement (appx 10 gal for water change) and then used a 5-gallon jug to transport the clean water to tank...about 2 trips per change.

when I first started with marine aquarium after years of freshwater, I too was apprehensive but as long as your patient and go slow (especially with live stock) then you'll be fine. There are so many diff advice from experienced reefers that sometimes it's very conflicting/confusing. What works for people sometimes just dont work for others. You have to try and learn what works for you. My biggest learning curve was having to setup an ATO (fresh water for this not salt water) and how often the filter sock had to be cleaned. I switched from 200 micron to 300 and didn't have to change it as often bc 200 micron was just too fine and would get clogged quickly.

I subscribe to using Deep Sand Bed (DSB) w Live Rocks as really effective natural filter and it's worked well. Just expensive to setup, but this hobby is expensive. If u decide to go DSB u have to use fine Ooolite sand not the coarse sand. Here's good read about DSB by Ron Shimek. http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Also learned a lot from NY Steelo from YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgGamcu5C7g
In one of his videos, he discusses tank maintenance, which I am following;

Daily:
1) visually inspect entire system
2) Dose 2-part (Calcium and Alkaline if you have corals)
3) feed

Weekly:
1) clean glass of algae so CUC will focus on cleaning rocks
2) clean/rinse sump sponge

Monthly:
1) test the water & maybe do water change? 10%...
2) replace chemipure & media (3-4 months)
3) replace phosphate reactor media (frequently until u get levels where u want it to be)
4) clean pumps every 6 months. May need to use distilled vinegar, soak/run pump in bucket of vinegar & water solution (2 hrs). more vinegar the better
5) clean ATO float
6) clean MP10 8-10 months period

Yearly:
1) replace bulbs

 

[Etoimos]

when I moved, I decided to get a larger tank. Unfortunately the new house wasn't ready in time for me to setup the new tank prior to our move. So due to time constraint bc I had to move the contents of my existing tank, I went and purchased spring water (appx 40 gals) from supermarket and used that. Wasn't fun opening all those 1-gallon jugs but was much quicker than waiting for the RODI water.

For a 60 gal tank (which was my previous tank), your regular water change would only be 10% so figure 6 gallons per change. Not much. Typically you would not have to do large water changes after tank has been established unless there's a crash or tank husbandry has been ignored. I used a 20-gal Brute to mix salt water in basement (appx 10 gal for water change) and then used a 5-gallon jug to transport the clean water to tank...about 2 trips per change.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my 20 gallon sump should be included in the water change calculation correct? Since the sump is not completely filled with water, it's not really a full 20 gallons, but I think my 10% changes should be roughly 8 gallons. Still easy enough to carry two jugs upstairs.

The Mag 12 dropped to $139 on Amazon today, so I went ahead and ordered. I figured it can't hurt to have a good backup pump incase it's needed.

when I first started with marine aquarium after years of freshwater, I too was apprehensive but as long as your patient and go slow (especially with live stock) then you'll be fine. There are so many diff advice from experienced reefers that sometimes it's very conflicting/confusing. What works for people sometimes just dont work for others. You have to try and learn what works for you. My biggest learning curve was having to setup an ATO (fresh water for this not salt water) and how often the filter sock had to be cleaned. I switched from 200 micron to 300 and didn't have to change it as often bc 200 micron was just too fine and would get clogged quickly.

I plan on taking it slow. Water will be going into the tank over my 3 day weekend. I'll sit in there running for a couple of days while I figure out what I'm doing sand and rock wise. Assuming I have those worked out and in the tank the first week of May, I'm looking at adding the first live stock at the end of July... roughly 15 weeks after starting the tank cycle. That's due to a heavy work schedule and family vacation in the first 3 weeks of July.

I know what you mean about conflicting/confusing info out there! There is tons of info to take in and process.

I do have an ATO system for this setup, but I don't have a good way of connecting it to the tank in my house. I might be able to fit a 2 gallon reservoir in the stand under tank, but I'll have to see what my evaporation rate is and see how long 2 gallons would last.

I also have socks, but I have no clue what micron they are... will have to ask the previous owner for that info.

I subscribe to using Deep Sand Bed (DSB) w Live Rocks as really effective natural filter and it's worked well. Just expensive to setup, but this hobby is expensive. If u decide to go DSB u have to use fine Ooolite sand not the coarse sand. Here's good read about DSB by Ron Shimek. http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Also learned a lot from NY Steelo from YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgGamcu5C7g
In one of his videos, he discusses tank maintenance, which I am following;

Daily:
1) visually inspect entire system
2) Dose 2-part (Calcium and Alkaline if you have corals)
3) feed

Weekly:
1) clean glass of algae so CUC will focus on cleaning rocks
2) clean/rinse sump sponge

Monthly:
1) test the water & maybe do water change? 10%...
2) replace chemipure & media (3-4 months)
3) replace phosphate reactor media (frequently until u get levels where u want it to be)
4) clean pumps every 6 months. May need to use distilled vinegar, soak/run pump in bucket of vinegar & water solution (2 hrs). more vinegar the better
5) clean ATO float
6) clean MP10 8-10 months period

Yearly:
1) replace bulbs

I'll look into the DSB more and I've watched a few of NY Steelo's videos already. I've not seen the one about tank maintenance yet though. Number one on the Weekly list makes a lot of sense on why to keep the glass/back wall clean.

Thanks for all the help and insight.

 

[TYC]

Yes, to figure out ttl water volume you can add the amount of water in the Sump + tank. But I just do 10% of the tank volume for water change. It doesn't have to be exackly 10% of ttl water volume, just as long as there is regular water change. Speaking of sump, make sure when u set up system that the sump can handle the water that will back siphon whenever you turn off the return pump or else it'll overflow. And that the return loc-line has a siphon break hole to prevent a back siphon from the return line when u shut off the return pump or else any water down to the return jet head of the display tank will siphon down to your sump. This hole should be at bottom of loc-line.

I'd put the ATO float and feed tube into the sump for simplicity, where the float monitors sump water level and any water added by the ATO goes into the sump or else if the ATO adds water to display tank, u'll need a stronger pump and tube go all the way up to display with potential for back siphon if the ATO tube ever goes below water line.

Also wherever you decide to locate the tank, please make sure there's plenty of space for you to work around all sides or at least 3 sides. On my first tank I made the mistake of placing tank in a corner so 2 sides of the tank were impossible to access easily which made maintenance and repairs extremely difficult if not impossible to reach.

For ATO reservoir, if you can, use as a big jug as possible or else u'll be refilling frequently. I was using a 1.5 (maybe 2 gal) reservoir and was constantly refilling it.

Yeah, I subscribe to DSB with Live rock and believe it's an effective natural bio/chemical filter. If u decide to go DSB it has to be sugar-fine size and 4" deep. Marinedepot has online calc that'll tell u how much sand to buy based on ur tank dimension and desired DSB depth.

Check out Tampa Bay Saltwater who farms live rock in the Gulf of Mexico and his rocks are direct from the ocean so ur tank can cycle in 2 weeks! Just one thing though, bc the rocks r from the ocean they can have bad hitch hikers that u have to remove, i.e. gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp. But beautiful rocks full of life that can't be found in LFS. d2mini has beautiful tank build threads n he exclusively uses TBS rocks many times. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1757436

 

[Etoimos]

My ATO is already plumbed into the sump

I'll try and remember to post photos of the tank and stand tonight. It is against one wall and the stand opens on the other three sides. One side is a little close to some stair banisters, but I can remove that door completely when needed... that side hoses the electronics and the ATO pump, so I should not need to get into that side very often.