Mod THis Mod That

[BeanAnimal]

Steve they do not benefit. It costs them more to build and support the product. What may appear to be a "simple" mod is a nightmare for a company to implement and support.

Why not build a better skimmer? It cost's more money and may result in less profit.

 

[glassbox-design]

it's exactly like car performance...

you can buy a evo or you can shell out the cash for a RS4...it's up to you. for many people modifying their equipment brings joy...for me it doesnt

but at the same time, if i had an RS4 i'd still be modifying it...suspension, revo, subtle body details etc...for me working on cars is enjoyable, so i can understand why people like modifying their reef equipment.

as was mentioned these products need to appeal the masses. Audi, could have easily pushed out another 50+hp, but they didnt because they want things to last and for the average buyer to be able to handle the car...the same can be said of our equipment. also just like cars, the europeans get all the good stuff!:lol:

 

[steve the plumb]

yes seems that everything nice is expensive.I am ordering a custum skimmer from Protein skimmers .com(or ORCA) he makes some nice skimmers they have a good price and they are well built.He has some models that are similar to octopus buy better built and the price is about the same if not less.He does good work for a fair price.He is one of the guys who's not out to male a mint off the sale of a skimmer.It rare to see that.http://www.protein-skimmer.com

 

[Noobie99]

Being a noobie, I've learned a few things. It doesn't matter whether its a high end skimmer or cheap skimmer- there are threads galore on modding almost every single skimmer on the market. If its not the skimmer body, then its the pump. And its not just skimmers..its lighting, pumps, etc. I'm sure in a few years I'll be modding everything I buy as well, but for now everything I have bought has worked fine for me without modding. I think its just human nature to try and perfect what can be perfected. Not to mention... that it may cost money to do mods, but from what I gather from the threads I've read, a lot of people actually enjoy trying different products, finding the shortcomings and then fixing them and then passing on the information. Why else would you mod a skimmer and say "Hey do this it works way better", then use the skimmer a few weeks, and then move on to another and so on and so on.
And Yes Tavares, aquarists are crazy and obsessed when it comes to their tank - I've only been into the hobby since April and I spend half my time working to fund my tank and the other half twiddling around with the equipment, testing Water Quality, looking at my fish and thinking "I wonder if he's happy in there", staying up way past my normal bed time to surf reef central threads...its exhausting LOL.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10494699#post10494699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SlowCobra
Name brands mean a lot to a lot of people. There are skimmers out there that are cheap to purchase new. Out of the box though their performance is not what it could/should be. A prime example is the Octopus series of skimmers and especially the 200 model. A few mods on this skimmer and it is a great skimmer that will blow away an ASM in the same class for a lot less money. Even factoring in the cost if you want to replace the now less than stellar pumps they include, you are still way ahead.

It blows away an ASM straight out of the box. With mods, it blows away an ER/Deltec/H&S.

he problem with your "fact" is proportionately you are also removing alot more water with a slightly higher amount of organics.

Do you honestly believe a guy who "pulls" a half - gallon of 'light tea' is removing that much more organics than a guy who "pulls" 8 oz of solid sludge?

And the guy with the half gal is going to have to spend time and $$$ making up new SW to replace what he just threw out (eventually); he can't just use RO FW topoff or his SG is going to start going down... a dry skim can just be made up with RO FW and the SG won't budge - plus, since most if not all skimmers are sensitive to water level a dry skim keeps your level more stable whereas a wet skim lowers your tank water level (especially if you don't top off every single day)

Yeah, the guy who wetskims removes more water... but you act like thats a bad thing? Us wet skimmers are doing constant water changes through our skimmers.


And seriously, what serious aquarist doesnt run some sort of auto top off?

 

[dhnguyen]

It also depends on the person. Some just like to tinker period.

I also see modding as a way to getting to know your gear and understand how it works so that it can be improved upon. This is true with everything and not just in the hobby.

Don't think that all the moddings we hobbiests have done haven't influenced new product designs to be released by companies. Trust me they're watching and learning. A lot of the new features you see in your gear originated from a mod somebody did along the way.

Modding something doesn't necessarily mean you're spending more money on it either. Perfect example is the Tunze Nano Stream 6025 mod to increase the flow simply by cutting out the inner tube to increase the water inlet area. A five minute job that transformed a 600gph pump to 1100gph.

 

[dhnguyen]

Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10494852#post10494852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GuySmilie
...Hey, if that fancy new skimmer worked just fine for us when we first got it, and we were beaming from ear-to-ear on how wonderfully it extracted that nasty nasty sludge from our pristine tank, then it's likely still just as good. But we're only humans.

I hear that exact same argument from many AquaC Remora and LifeReef skimmer users.

Would you use an old Pentium II computer and be saitisfied? It works the same as when you got it doesn't it? That doesn't make it better does it....

Obsolescence in this hobby as with anything should always be considered. It is also the result of progress and innovation IMO.

 

[USC-fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10498848#post10498848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
It blows away an ASM straight out of the box. With mods, it blows away an ER/Deltec/H&S.

ASM yes...

the rest no....

Unless you get better pumps for the skimmer. If you plan to do all that just save money and just make a custom skimmer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10498992#post10498992 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dhnguyen
I hear that exact same argument from many AquaC Remora and LifeReef skimmer users.

Would you use an old Pentium II computer and be saitisfied? It works the same as when you got it doesn't it? That doesn't make it better does it....

Obsolescence in this hobby as with anything should always be considered. It is also the result of progress and innovation IMO.

Ahem....

CPU speeds and computing power follow Moore's Law... Skimmers do not

At face value the analogy sounds good, but in reality they two are nothing alike. Computing speeds increase as a matter of transistor density and manufacture cost. Skimmers do not improve according Moore's Law and transistor density

Yes, of course skimmers have advanced in the last 25 years. But they certainly do not advance quickly or on a daily basis to the point that today's skimmer is yesterdays fantasy, or tomorrows skimmer makes today's obsolete.

We are using BIGGER skimmers but there have bene very few advances in skimmer technology and those advances are not definitive steps forward. Each technology has pros and cons, there is no "best" skimmer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10499913#post10499913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kb-smoker
ASM yes...

the rest no....

Unless you get better pumps for the skimmer. If you plan to do all that just save money and just make a custom skimmer.

Most folks do not have the skills or tooling to build a skimmer cheaper and better than they can purchase. Thus, there is a market for skimmers

 

[dhnguyen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10500213#post10500213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Ahem....

CPU speeds and computing power follow Moore's Law... Skimmers do not

At face value the analogy sounds good, but in reality they two are nothing alike. Computing speeds increase as a matter of transistor density and manufacture cost. Skimmers do not improve according Moore's Law and transistor density

Yes, of course skimmers have advanced in the last 25 years. But they certainly do not advance quickly or on a daily basis to the point that today's skimmer is yesterdays fantasy, or tomorrows skimmer makes today's obsolete.

We are using BIGGER skimmers but there have bene very few advances in skimmer technology and those advances are not definitive steps forward. Each technology has pros and cons, there is no "best" skimmer.

I agree that skimmer advancement doesn't move at the same lightspeed rate as computer CPU. That said however, the same principle applies here.

Take a look at the 2 skimmers I mentioned above Remora and LifeReef, they are way outdated skimmers that are expensive to boot. Do they work? Yes for the most part and at one point, they both were considered THE skimmers to have. But now there are better performing skimmers that cost less.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10499913#post10499913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kb-smoker
ASM yes...

the rest no....

Unless you get better pumps for the skimmer. If you plan to do all that just save money and just make a custom skimmer.

Its takes 10 minutes, a little PF4, and a dremel, to make the NW200 pull 50 scfh. At that point, its pulling as much air as a skimmer with two eheim 1260s on it.

At that point, it does smoke an ER, and most of the H&S/Deltec skimmers I've seen.

 

[RichConley]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mod THis Mod That

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10500213#post10500213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal

Yes, of course skimmers have advanced in the last 25 years. But they certainly do not advance quickly or on a daily basis to the point that today's skimmer is yesterdays fantasy, or tomorrows skimmer makes today's obsolete.

We are using BIGGER skimmers but there have bene very few advances in skimmer technology and those advances are not definitive steps forward. Each technology has pros and cons, there is no "best" skimmer.

Bean, I very much disagree with this.


2 years ago, an 8" bodied NW skimmer that would pull 20 scfh for 100w would cost you $2K. Now you can get an 8" bodied NW skimmer that pulls 60schf for 30w for $600.


There are $200 skimmers that outperform $1000 skimmers of two years ago.

To say they aren't getting better quickly, is frankly ridiculous. No, the technology hasnt change, but thigns have gotten more powerful, more efficient, and cheaper.

 

[USC-fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10500655#post10500655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Its takes 10 minutes, a little PF4, and a dremel, to make the NW200 pull 50 scfh. At that point, its pulling as much air as a skimmer with two eheim 1260s on it.

At that point, it does smoke an ER, and most of the H&S/Deltec skimmers I've seen.

how many watts is this pump pulling running mesh? Also what size neck does this skimmer have? Can it even handle that amount of air.

I know my DAS ex-2 with 2x AB 2001 pulls too much air[1000 lph @ 26 watts] for my 6in skimmer body with a 3.5" neck. This skimmer is also 27.5 inches high. If i run it wide open it will just over flow.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Rich, with all due respect, I think you are missing the point on all accounts.


Of course skimmers are going to get better as R&D progresses.

Lets put this into perspective. Your TV, no matter how much you pay, comes to you tuned to the bare minimum. Invite a certified ISF or similar calibrator over and he can eek every bit of performance out of your TV in about 30 minutes. He will charge you between $300 and $3000 depending on the work that needs to be done and they display type.

Big question? Why does Sony, Toshiba, RCA and they gang not just calibrate the TV at the factory? Because it costs more money and does not drive sales in proportion to the money it costs.

Tweaking a skimmer may only take 10 minutes. The overhead cost may only be the labor and part. Lets say $10. Now lets add that $10 to 10,000 skimmers. That is $100,000. The big question is simple. Will that $10 addition generate over $100,000 in additional revenue?

Lets say that the $10 mod causes a 5% increase in support calls due to clogged mesh and other similer problems. How much is that going to cost? Is it worth the trouble?

BK can get away with trying stuff like that because he charges so much for his product.

The market itself should be obvious. The market dictates the quality and price point. You may be willing to pay another $30 for a skimmer that is pre-modded, but that does not mean that a manufacturer is willing to take the monetary hit or chance to give you that skimmer.