Moral of the story: QT your damn inverts too!

[GroktheCube]

I've always been religious about using a good QT protocol for my fish (start out with TTM, then prazi followed by observation), but I've never really bothered for inverts or corals that didn't come from systems with fish.

Yesterday morning I found both my Magnificent Foxface and C. binotatus with very obvious symptoms of crypto. A couple of spots on the tang in addition to some abrasions from rubbing on rocks, and quite a few spots on the foxface.

:facepalm:

I added about a dozen inverts (snails and urchins) along with another half dozen corals from two very well regarded and very popular online retailers just about a month ago. I can think of no other possible source of infection.

I just finished spending about 7 hours setting up a pair of 40 breeders for TTM, and will probably be spending most of my weekend pulling apart all my rocks and draining the better part of 120g DT to catch all of my fish.

Needless to say, I'll also be setting up a separate permanent QT for inverts and corals over the coming 10 weeks.

This has been your daily PSA, because knowing is half the battle. The odds of getting ich (or another more dangerous parasite) from inverts may be relatively small, but they are certainly higher than zero. The expense and time of setting up two TTM tanks and a 10 week holding tank for several large fish in addition to tearing down a 120g DT to catch them all VASTLY outweighs the expense of setting up a small, cheap invert QT with a few T5s, an HOB, and a powerhead.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Sorry. Lesson learned.

 

[scuzy]

i had the same thing happening to my tank crypto free over 18 months now i see ich and the stress of removing all my fish is going to be crazy. Going to let it be and if ich kills off the fish then i will start over. I know that i will lose a lot more by trying to catch them. you live and learn. Can't get any frags from anyone without quarantining.

 

[snorvich]

Sorry you had the problem. If coral or inverts come from a system that contains fish, QT is really important.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Lol...yep learned that lesson after introducing brook via a sea urchin. Every invert, rock and corals gets quarantined for at least 72 days. Steve, maybe that should be added on to the stickies

 

[EnderTurtle]

So even if you want to put a snail or a piece of liverock in your tank you have to qt for 2 months. Because there could be a crypto cyst sitting on the shell or liverock waiting to hatch.

Ich is truly making this hobby unfun.

 

[HumbleFish]

Just a thought... if a coral/invert has a shell or some other hard (rocky) surface where tomonts can encyst, then QT for 72 days is your only safe option. This is also probably true for most corals/anemones that absorb water (due to theronts).

But if we are talking about a shrimp, crab without a shell, starfish, or urchin; then I would think pouring a little tank water over it before placing in your tank would "wash away" any theronts that might have landed in a droplet of water on the thing. Agree/disagree?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

So even if you want to put a snail or a piece of liverock in your tank you have to qt for 2 months. Because there could be a crypto cyst sitting on the shell or liverock waiting to hatch.

Ich is truly making this hobby unfun.

Yep! But not only ich, it could be velvet or brook. I dripped a sea urchin for 4 hours and constantly changing out the water in the drip bucket to where none of the LFS water remained. And still got brook

 

[snorvich]

Any water transfered to your system from another system can bring nasty surprises.

 

[Spar]

Just a thought... if a coral/invert has a shell or some other hard (rocky) surface where tomonts can encyst, then QT for 72 days is your only safe option. This is also probably true for most corals/anemones that absorb water (due to theronts).

But if we are talking about a shrimp, crab without a shell, starfish, or urchin; then I would think pouring a little tank water over it before placing in your tank would "wash away" any theronts that might have landed in a droplet of water on the thing. Agree/disagree?

i would like to see research on how 'hard' a 'hard surface' needs to be for tomites to form; i mean for something microscopic, anything is probably hard to some extent. we just know that for whatever reason they don't tend to encyst on fish, even though plenty of hard patches (think Tang's spine, Tusk Fish teeth, etc.). but i would think an urchin spine would fit in the hard category.

think a theront would survive being 'swallowed' by a nem? this was the one chance i ever took in my DT, just putting a nem directly in. no hard surface for encysting (tomites), and anything that goes 'in' the nem would be food... but they do push the water out when shrinking, so have always been a little worried about that whether it is actually food or not or how long it takes it to die (this was years ago and had no ill effect though).

 

[HumbleFish]

but i would think an urchin spine would fit in the hard category.

think a theront would survive being 'swallowed' by a nem? this was the one chance i ever took in my DT, just putting a nem directly in. no hard surface for encysting (tomites), and anything that goes 'in' the nem would be food... but they do push the water out when shrinking, so have always been a little worried about that whether it is actually food or not or how long it takes it to die (this was years ago and had no ill effect though).

You're probably right about urchins, and the same logic might even apply to the hard parts of starfish. My concern with nems (and fleshy corals such as euphyllia) is how can you ever be certain you are getting all of the source water off/out of them? Just seems like there's not as much to, say, a shrimp... and you could "wash away" any diseases that happened to land in a drop of water on the shrimp by using your own tank water. Think shrimp in a net, and your then gently pour some of the destination water all over the shrimp. Unless, of course, ich tomonts (for example) are capable of encysting on a shrimp's exoskeleton. Afterall, it is a 'hard surface'.

Of course, the smart thing to do is just QT all corals/inverts for 72 days in a fishless QT. But as someone pointed out above, all this QT'ing & disease paranoia really does zap a lot of the fun out of this hobby.

 

[Spar]

You're probably right about urchins, and the same logic might even apply to the hard parts of starfish. My concern with nems (and fleshy corals such as euphyllia) is how can you ever be certain you are getting all of the source water off/out of them? Just seems like there's not as much to, say, a shrimp... and you could "wash away" any diseases that happened to land in a drop of water on them with your own tank water.

Of course, the smart thing to do is just QT all corals/inverts for 72 days in a fishless QT. But as someone pointed out above, all this QT'ing & disease paranoia really does zap a lot of the fun out of this hobby.

I guess I'm one of the few people that likes the 72 day period. If I were to put a new piece of coral into my tank, it would just get mixed in with all the others and not get any attention from me. By tending to it for 12 weeks, I get to spend quality time with it first :love2: same with shrimp, etc. Fish the same story, albeit a shorter time.

For nems, my point is that I would think anything inside of them (the water they absorb in) would be die once inside. I guess my question is, could something live in that water volume inside the nem, and then live through being pushed out when the nem shrinks up as well?

also, do dips like Revive kill protmonts or theronts? i do dip my coral, nems, etc, before putting them in QT.

 

[GroktheCube]

Just a thought... if a coral/invert has a shell or some other hard (rocky) surface where tomonts can encyst, then QT for 72 days is your only safe option. This is also probably true for most corals/anemones that absorb water (due to theronts).

But if we are talking about a shrimp, crab without a shell, starfish, or urchin; then I would think pouring a little tank water over it before placing in your tank would "wash away" any theronts that might have landed in a droplet of water on the thing. Agree/disagree?

I always do that, along with removing corals from their plugs. It easily could have been a snail shell in my case, but I don't intend to take any risks again.

You're probably right about urchins, and the same logic might even apply to the hard parts of starfish. My concern with nems (and fleshy corals such as euphyllia) is how can you ever be certain you are getting all of the source water off/out of them? Just seems like there's not as much to, say, a shrimp... and you could "wash away" any diseases that happened to land in a drop of water on the shrimp by using your own tank water. Think shrimp in a net, and your then gently pour some of the destination water all over the shrimp. Unless, of course, ich tomonts (for example) are capable of encysting on a shrimp's exoskeleton. Afterall, it is a 'hard surface'.

Of course, the smart thing to do is just QT all corals/inverts for 72 days in a fishless QT. But as someone pointed out above, all this QT'ing & disease paranoia really does zap a lot of the fun out of this hobby.

QTing all inverts going forward isn't exactly going to be fun, but it's better than this!

OTOH, this does give me the excuse to work on a few other projects. Some GHA has been plaguing me lately (and killed a couple branching corals), so this will give me a chance to eradicate it permanently. I also have a hitchhiking pistol or mantis in one of my rocks that I might finally be able to spot, and I can finally get every single last grain of sand out of my DT, along with giving the overflow box a good cleaning and killing the aiptasia living inside of it.

I've also been planning on setting up a 93 cube to use as a dedicated anemone tank (probably for a magnifica) for a while now, and this gives me a perfect excuse for it. It would make a pretty good holding tank for the fish waiting out the fallow period.

I'll be picking up 3 food grade brutes from the local borg this evening, along with sorting out what PVC fittings I need to give the tang and foxface adequate separate hiding places, so hopefully I'll be ready by Friday or Saturday to start what will certainly be a rather messy process. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't kill off any of my fish in the process.

 

[trueperc]

I too have learned this lesson. I had fish in QT and main display fishless for 10 weeks. Decided when I was putting the fish in I would add an anemone for the clowns, well that was a big mistake as within a week everything was covered with ich, back to qt and fishless for 10 weeks. Now everything thing wet gets dipped first in Coral RX then QT for 10 weeks.

 

[HumbleFish]

I guess I'm one of the few people that likes the 72 day period. If I were to put a new piece of coral into my tank, it would just get mixed in with all the others and not get any attention from me. By tending to it for 12 weeks, I get to spend quality time with it first :love2: same with shrimp, etc. Fish the same story, albeit a shorter time.

I guess my particular problem is with the way my invert QT is setup. It's basically just a small "fishless" reef, LR and all. So if I put a shrimp or crab in there to QT, I might never see it again. And I somehow doubt those would last for 72 days in an acclimation box without being able to scavenge. And then I guess I could QT only so many snails at a time, for fear of those starving in just a 29 gal.

also, do dips like Revive kill protmonts or theronts? i do dip my coral, nems, etc, before putting them in QT.

No way of knowing, and I doubt they will ever test for it. I do know coral dips will not kill eggs of flatworms and whatever other nasties lay eggs that hitchhike on corals. :worried:

 

[super_steve85]

How do you QT a snail for 10 weeks without it starving? Do you feed them Nori?

 

[Spar]

How do you QT a snail for 10 weeks without it starving? Do you feed them Nori?

putting nori and a little fish food in occasionally will keep them going. keep a light over the QT to promote algae growth to keep them busy.

same thing with hermits. i have GHA like crazy in my coral/invert QT. i have 3 chocolate chip starfish in there right now.

 

[DasCamel]

+1

+1

Yep! But not only ich, it could be velvet or brook. I dripped a sea urchin for 4 hours and constantly changing out the water in the drip bucket to where none of the LFS water remained. And still got brook

I rinsed a Petco Nem really well also with fresh saltwater and still managed to get Brook. All it takes is one microscopic parasite to be expelled from the critter.

 

[GroktheCube]

I rinsed a Petco Nem really well also with fresh saltwater and still managed to get Brook. All it takes is one microscopic parasite to be expelled from the critter.

I am grateful that it was "only" ich. While eliminating it will be a bit of a PITA, I'm also not worried about all my fish drying before I have a chance to get them into tx this weekend.

 

[sreefs]

Years ago Anthony Calfo told me to QT anything wet I plan on putting in my tank, that advice has served me well. It can be an expensive and time consuming lesson if not followed. He also said if you don't sooner or later you will pay the price.