Hey guys, some questions on issues I am having with my tank. About 2 months ago I moved a tank that had been established for 4 plus years. I was able to move all my fish and zoa ....live rock with no loss. So was very excited about that. I did however end up replacing about 60 percent of my water of a 90 gallon tank and also removed some of my live rock to create a better rockscape for future coral. I have been doing quite a few water changes and cannot get my nitrates below 20 ppm and struggling to get my PH over 8. I have done quite a few substrate cleaning with a vac and almost always get quite a bit of detrius as well as my filter sock will turn brown in about a week after cleaning. Alkalinity is also low at 6.5 and will probably start trying to dose with baking soda to raise it. All other parameters are in good shape and my fish etc all seem to be doing pretty good but I know to add coral I have to have better parameters. Something is off I am just not sure what it is....looking for any thoughts on what I need to tweak here. thank you!
Moved tank and now have parameter issues
- Thread starter af4evr13
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Did you regularly siphon the sand bed previously? I ask because a lot of times if it’s not regularly disturbed, moving a sand bed without rinsing it very well can lead to issues if it gets disturbed during the move.
With that said, here is a recent thread in PH issues that also has a chart on it. Your nitrates, while pushing the high end, aren’t that high.
forums.reefcentral.com
What are your full parameters? Often times our other test parameters correlate to others.
@kharmaguru @Timfish @griss any thoughts?
With that said, here is a recent thread in PH issues that also has a chart on it. Your nitrates, while pushing the high end, aren’t that high.
PH Issues
I have a new tank, it's a custom 80 with a sump that holds 40 gallons. It has an Apex on it (brand new) and the PH reads 7.7 to 7.9 over the course of the day. I've calibrated the probe numerous times, and used a Hannah PH test kit to compare it, and if the tank shows 7.84, Hannah will show 7.9...
forums.reefcentral.com
What are your full parameters? Often times our other test parameters correlate to others.
@kharmaguru @Timfish @griss any thoughts?
Thank you. I am pretty sure my PH problem is due to the carbon dioxide exchange in my home. The aquarium is in my living room and we do not get much fresh air...we have a 2000 sq ft home with 5 humans and 5 dogs. I have tried everything with exception of Kalwasser to raise it .....the only thing that seemed to help recently was I took an air pump and placed it outside my window and put the air stone in my sump. This seemed to start raising the PH but then I read that doing this can cause other issues so I stopped. I have not tried running a line from outside into my sump area....not really sure I understand what I would use to do that...
Tank parameters. PH 7.9, Nitrate 20ppm, Ammonia 0, Salinity 1.025, Alkalinity 6.5 kh, Cal 450, Mg 1360, Temp 78. I have a red sea protein skimmer, use bio media in one cup in my sump and a sock in the other. Currently do not have anything in my refugium area of the sump....this is a whole different conversation lol. As for lighting I run two Red Sea LED 150s.
Tank parameters. PH 7.9, Nitrate 20ppm, Ammonia 0, Salinity 1.025, Alkalinity 6.5 kh, Cal 450, Mg 1360, Temp 78. I have a red sea protein skimmer, use bio media in one cup in my sump and a sock in the other. Currently do not have anything in my refugium area of the sump....this is a whole different conversation lol. As for lighting I run two Red Sea LED 150s.
Moving tanks is obviously very disruptive and even more so if rock is remvoed with the associated mature biofilms and likely cryptic sponges that play an important role recycling stuff in aquaria. One of which is converting DOC to DIC which is critical for coral growth. So here's some things you can do:
Verify your CO2 levels in your house, there are test kits and testers. If an air pump outside helps raise pH I'd use it. (I'm not sure what issues there are with running an airline outside to get fresh air, it's pretty much accepted indoor air is more polluted than outside air and houses built with tight insulation can have air exchangers designed into the central AC system to make sure CO2 levels inside are acceptable.)
I would focus on keeping alkalinity above 7 dKH
Make sure you PO4 is above .03 mg/l. FWIW .03 mg/l is the minimum, .5 mg/l is acceptable and even .9mg/l might not be an issue.
Stop siphoning the sand for awhile, there's alot of important biology and constant disruption isn't likely helping at the moment. If the surface nuisance algae bothers you use steel straws to remove just the thins surface layer, clean it with aged saltwater and return it or kill everything with H2O2, let dry for a day then return it.
Stop using a filter sock, fish poop is an important part of the carbonate cycle in reefs and right now you need to raise and stabilize it.
Be patient! You're trying to alter the equilibrium of the ecosystem, it's not going to happen over night. I'd expect at least a month if not longer for your alkalinity to start behaving like it used to before the move.
Verify your CO2 levels in your house, there are test kits and testers. If an air pump outside helps raise pH I'd use it. (I'm not sure what issues there are with running an airline outside to get fresh air, it's pretty much accepted indoor air is more polluted than outside air and houses built with tight insulation can have air exchangers designed into the central AC system to make sure CO2 levels inside are acceptable.)
I would focus on keeping alkalinity above 7 dKH
Make sure you PO4 is above .03 mg/l. FWIW .03 mg/l is the minimum, .5 mg/l is acceptable and even .9mg/l might not be an issue.
Stop siphoning the sand for awhile, there's alot of important biology and constant disruption isn't likely helping at the moment. If the surface nuisance algae bothers you use steel straws to remove just the thins surface layer, clean it with aged saltwater and return it or kill everything with H2O2, let dry for a day then return it.
Stop using a filter sock, fish poop is an important part of the carbonate cycle in reefs and right now you need to raise and stabilize it.
Be patient! You're trying to alter the equilibrium of the ecosystem, it's not going to happen over night. I'd expect at least a month if not longer for your alkalinity to start behaving like it used to before the move.
Thank you. That is excellent information. I have been siphoning a lot so that probably is not helping. I am a bit unclear on your comment about removing the thin layer and cleaning it ? I understand the removing of the film and how to do that but not the cleaning part.
Should I try to establish a refugium in the front part of my sump? I have a Red Sea Reefer 350 and there is a built in refugium section in my sump. have attempted in the past to use it but I can never get the Macro Algae to take off and it gets overun by nuisance algae. thank you!
Should I try to establish a refugium in the front part of my sump? I have a Red Sea Reefer 350 and there is a built in refugium section in my sump. have attempted in the past to use it but I can never get the Macro Algae to take off and it gets overun by nuisance algae. thank you!
API is kind of notorious for inaccuracies due to not having as specific of readings. I use salifert and others reccomend Red Sea or Hannah
Cheato and OGO.....always ended up getting taken over by a thick dark green algae that had little balls in it. Very strange. I bought through Algae barn and tried the mud, cubes , copepods etc. Used a recommended violet light at night....offset from my main tank lights. I built a fuge out of the ATO that came with the tank and it set in the sump area.
In regards to pulling air from outside. I have been looking online all morning on how to do this? I have read where some people hook directly up to the skimmer with a line that goes outside. I have a red sea skimmer and I don't see anywhere I could attach a line? Or is it simply running a line into your sump? How do you pull in the air etc?
Often sand will get a thin layer of some kind of nuisance algae on it. Stirring the sand will hide it some but often as it propagates it can get pretty annoying for some. Instead of disturbing most of the sand bed and biology just siphoning off the thin top layer and cleaning it as mentioned can take care of the issue without disturbing the deeper sand bed.
I wouldn't do a lighted refugium, macroalga and corals are competing with each other and macros can dump stuff into the water that can affect corals negatively in several ways. A cryptic refugium with just rubble and cryptic sponges can be very beenficial as cryptic sponges can remove stuff from the water much faster than bacterioplankton and convert some of it into stuff corals can use.
Here's some links you might find interesting:
"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems
Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes
Microbial view of Coral Decline
Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
BActeria and Sponges
Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
Maintenance of Coral Reef Health
Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching / Curr. Biol., May 21, 2020 (Vol. 30, Issue 13)
DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
Aquabiomics: DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
What's up with phosphate? by Richard Ross | MACNA 2014
This is very helpful...should I add a T line so I have the silencer still hooked up or are you saying to disconnect the silencer and hook right into the top of where you are showing?
Will check these out. thank you!
I have not personally done this and don't have a Red Sea skimmer. But, from everything I've read, you disconnect the silencer and hook the airline right to where the arrow is pointing. If you T it off, you'll still be introducing inside air with CO2.
If it's the same as my eShopps skimmer, you'll need some 3/16" ID tubing to make sure you're not restricting the flow.
Got it. So the skimmer creates enough of a vacuum to suck in the air through the line?
Disclaimer: I am not currently using external air. I'm in the research stages myself
But, from everything I've read, as long as the ID of the airline tubing your using is large enough, yes, the skimmer will create enough vacuum to pull the air through the line. Of course, the shorter the length of the airline, the better from what I've been able to determine.
Ok got it. I will be sure to let everyone know if it works. I sure hope it does!Disclaimer: I am not currently using external air. I'm in the research stages myself
But, from everything I've read, as long as the ID of the airline tubing your using is large enough, yes, the skimmer will create enough vacuum to pull the air through the line. Of course, the shorter the length of the airline, the better from what I've been able to determine.
