My achilles (only him) is infested with ich

Please guys

My achilles is infested with ich. Too much

He is eating, not too much, but is eating.

I was told to use Flygil. It works ?

My params are all OK but as soon as the winter came, he became infested.

before anyone ask, I have no Salinity nor Temp variation.

Please, help !

What I should do? Take him to a QT?
 
Well, that will be virtually impossible. I have 10 (ten) really big tangs and other 20 small fishes and lots and lots of SPS corals.

What do you suggest ?
 
Man, thats going to be hard with so many large fish. Some people recommend to keep the tang well fed, keep the stress level down in the tank and the fish might be able to fight it off. But I have to say that didn't work out for me and I ended up losing my entire livestock in my 180 because of ich.
Ps. Gorgeous tank by the way. Hope it all works out for the best.
 
Flagyl works only 10% of the time best to use UV and keep water quality at optimum levels and feed crushed garlic soaked food and beta glucan- personally i have never seen flagyl/ metronidazole ever cure cryptocaryon.
 
IMO IME: there are few effective treatments for ich. Copper ( I prefer Cupramine), Quinine Sulfate (really gaining in popularity), Hypo (has a lot of fans who are great hobbyists. I don't like it, FWIW) and the tank transfer method (no personal experience) None work in the DT, which is why putting all new live stock in QT is preached non-stop. If the Achilles has the worst case, at least get him into a QT. This may help the others have a fighting chance and the Achilles can be cured. There's no easy way to say it, you have a big problem. Sometimes, healthy fish can fight ich off, but unless its wiped out, it inevitably returns. The best diet, vitamins, pristine water, and lot of luck may get you through this. I'm sure you know that tangs are among the most ich-prone fish. they have a very light slime coat and a tough time fighting it off.
 
I have only a small QT, only 13 gallons.

The fish has about 3,5 in. Do you think I can leave him on this size of QT for 2 weeks ?

If yes, how often I'll have to do water changes and how to keep ammonia at low levels ?
 
Roberto - i would not advise moving an Achilles to a small treatment tank they are surge zone fish which require high oxygen and current, since whitespot is already in your main display- and the fish is eating still you may be best to try using a UV unit on the tank that is properly sized and making sure water quality and temp are very stable and good. If you do move the achilles to a small Quarantine then i strongly suggest hypo and no medicine which will rob the water of oxygen from a fish which really needs good oxygen levels.
 
UV is sometimes better for killing whitespot as it is related to how fast you flow the water through the Uv to kill it as it is a large organism it needs over 90 000 uw/cm2 of Uv radiation to kill it and then you want your whole tank volume to go through this fast enough to reduce the numbers - it will not cure whitespot but makes it more manageable

Ozone in my opinion will help but some claim it wont kill whitespot but in my opinion it damages it enough by burning the cilia it moves with to find the host again reaction time and ozone dosage is the important factor please make sure the water being treated goes over activated carbon before it returns to the tank and try to vent any ozone from the air to outside the room as it causes problems indoors - it degrades rubber and can be harmful to your own health .

Ozone will also improve oxygen and redox level of tank but make sure it is connected to a redox meter or you run risk of overdosing redox must not go over 450mv

It isnt ozone or uv they do similar things but the key is that both will reduce whitespot numbers faster if run correctly than just one, whitespot is a disease that is dangerous because it is a closed system an aquarium, in the ocean whitespot would never kill its host as it cant reach epidemic numbers- Ozone and Uv is to try help you keep those numbers as low as possible. hope that helps.http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/sites/default/files/brochures/UV Charts Salt and Fresh Water.pdf

Achilles and many other tangs are more susceptible to whitespot as they dont have as good slime body protection as other fish to fight it off but over time if they survive the outbreak they can develop a partial or full immunity to white spot which will last about 6 months.
 
Too late now, but maybe someone will benefit. I just don't understand how hobbyists can have tanks with hundreds, even thousands of dollars in fish; and not have a proper QT. It isn't like the need of having a proper QT is a vital part of long term success in this hobby is being kept a secret. I don't think a day goes by on this forum that doesn't include a new post from someone who is paying the price for ignoring the advice to use a QT on everything. I don't mean this as a personal attack, it happens all the time and shouldn't. I remember a very avid hobbyist who lost a tank of great fish, including a $800 pair of Crosshatches to velvet because a new wrasse wasn't put in QT.
 
MrTuskfish. I totally agree with you BUT, in my case I cannot know what happens. I don't put new fish for more than 1 YEAR now.

Suddenly this outbreak began. I don't really know why....
 
MrTuskfish. I totally agree with you BUT, in my case I cannot know what happens. I don't put new fish for more than 1 YEAR now.

Suddenly this outbreak began. I don't really know why....

Ich can be transferred by anything wet: fish, corals, other inverts, LR, even snails. If the Achilles is the only fish with spots, I would QT him in whatever you can. Add a PH. Even a plastic tote box is better than letting all those parasites multiply in your DT. Every parasite on the fish can return in a few weeks, only X 100. At some point, if the Achilles lives, your other tangs will likely be overwhelmed. Putting an Achilles in a small QT is not impossible, IMO, its better than not treating him. You seem to have one "very infested" fish and others with no signs. If you keep him in your DT, I think other fish becoming infested is almost inevitable.
 
I have to agree and disagree with Mr Tuskfish. Quarantine is essential in this hobby i agree with this, I disagree that it will help to remove the achilles and treat in seperate qt at this point and here is why, it is very likely that some other fish have a low level infection / partial immunity to the cryptocaryon and so if you remove and even in spite of the stress it will cause are able to cure the achilles without actually killing it in a quarantine that is too small, when you finally return it to the tank it will just get reinfected again and you will be back to square one.

IMO, sometimes it is best to introduce measures like Ozone and Uv , feed vitamin enriched diets high in vit c and garlic and to keep water quality optimum with no large swings in kh , ph or temp. This may allow the fish to also get stronger and develop a partial or full immunity. I know people who have killed many fish by putting them in "hospital" tanks with inferior filtration, toxic medicine and those fish would have recovered if not stressed by this in the main tank. I only say this for cryptocaryon if one is dealing with other diseases like oodinium it is a different story.
 
Sorry, but ozone and UV will not rid your tank of ich. The OP has a significant problem which is just starting. I am sorry.
 
Ozone and Uv won't rid the tank of ich but I know that it can help reduce the numbers of parasites in the tank - no one said it would cure it. At low levels fish are able to survive and live for years with whitespot at a low level- many people know that whitespot can just arise suddenly even without anything being introduced because it has always been there at a low level . Snorvich are you saying that uv and ozone won't reduce the parasite levels if properly sized and used? Can't agree with that I have seen what uv and ozone can do for aquariums if properly sized and used and they can make whitespot's affect on fish mortality go to almost zero , if all other environmental parameters remain good.
 
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Ozone and Uv won't rid the tank of ich but I know that it can help reduce the numbers of parasites in the tank - no one said it would cure it. At low levels fish are able to survive and live for years with whitespot at a low level- many people know that whitespot can just arise suddenly even without anything being introduced because it has always been there at a low level . Snorvich are you saying that uv and ozone won't reduce the parasite numbers?

UV can reduce the parasite numbers if the intensity is sufficient and the water flow is proper. The biggest problem there, is that the entire tank does not cycle through UV which means that some will survive, perhaps even most. Ozone, at proper levels, can also reduce the number although this is less effective in that regard that UV. But you might read the sticky that I suggested as I do not agree that ich is always present in all tanks.
 
Treatments which work:

1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. It is difficult to control pH and water quality during treatment, however this is the least stressful treatment for the fish.

2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. This can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress.

3.. Transfer method – The fish is moved from tank to tank to separate the fish from the cysts that fall off and the free-swimming stages of the parasite. Two hospital tanks are needed to perform this treatment. The fish is stressed by having to keep moving it between these hospital tanks.

4. These are the ONLY 3 known cures that work almost 100% of the time. Other chemicals will kill the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite, but only in special conditions that are not good for the fish. Some chemicals will only kill some of the organisms, letting the others escape death to go on to multiply and infect.

Observations, Claims, and Common Myths:

1. Some Tangs seem more susceptible. This is true. Their mucous coatings are reduced in thickness and composition.

2. Cryptocaryon irritans goes away on its own. This is definitely NOT true. While Cryptocaryon irritans is only visible at one stage of its life cycle if it was once seen, then it hasn't gone away -- it's just not visible to the aquarist. Reread the life cycle described above.

3. It goes away with a ‘reef-safe’ remedy. This is not true; we all wish it was. This is one of the biggest and most 'dangerous' of the misrepresentations in the hobby. The aquarist thinks everything is okay when it isn't. What usually has happened is that the parasite has killed the fish it is able to kill and the rest have developed a resistance or immunity. The parasite is still in the aquarium, possibly infecting the gills of the fish where it can’t be seen. About 40% of fish seem able to develop this immunity.

4. It was gone then when a new fish is added, it is there again. This is not true. See 3 above. Cryptocaryon irritans wasn’t really gone or the new fish brought in the disease with it. A new addition to an aquarium can be the stress which triggers the other fish to reduce their defense or immunity, this will allow the parasite to 'bloom' to the point where the infection is now again visible to the aquarist.

5. The fish lived through the last outbreak then died during the second or subsequent outbreak. This can be true. The fish had a resistance or immunity that it lost.

6. It was accurately diagnosed as Cryptocaryon irritans, then never showed up again. It wasn’t ich or the fish quickly developed an immediate immunity or resistance, or the fish is still infected in the gills.

7. Cryptocaryon irritans can ‘hang around’ almost unnoticed with just a body spot now and then because it often resides just in the gills. This is true.

8. Aquariums always have Cryptocaryon irritans. This is untrue. Cryptocaryon irritans can be kept out of an aquarium. Just quarantine all fish, rock, sand, sponges, and filter medium and don’t let non-quarantined livestock get into the aquarium.

9. Fish always have Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. In the wild fish often show up to a 30% infection rate (or more) but the wild fish survive minor infections. In the tank the parasite can 'bloom' since In the tank the fish can't get away. The combination of bloom and no escape will overcome the fish. In capture and transportation the fish can share the disease and thus many wild caught marine aquarium fishes do have this parasite, but not all.

10. A fish can't be made to be totally rid of Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. All marine fish can be cured and rid of any Cryptocaryon irritans infection.

11. Just feed the fish well and/or feed it garlic and it will be okay. Not true. Nutrition, foods, vitamins, etc. don't cure an infected fish. An infected fish is sick and is being tortured by the itching and discomfort. It might pull through and acquire resistance or immunity (see above) but the fish is being stressed by having to contend with a parasite. Don't let this happen to the fish. Cure it!!

12. A new cure has been discovered. Very unlikely. If the aquarist thinks they have found a new cure, then have it researched and independently tested. It's easy and cheap. If it is as good as the above 3 tried and true methods then the professional veterinarians, private and public aquariums, fish farms, and I will use it. The aquarist needs to keep the perspective of how devastating this parasite is not to just the hobby but to the whole fish farming industry. Any new way of 100% treatment will make headlines!

13. If the Cryptocaryon irritans can't always be detected, then why bother with a quarantine procedure? In the confines of a small quarantine and being there for no less than 6 weeks, the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite will make itself known because the fish is weakened and the fish can't get away from being re-infected by multiplying Cryptocaryon irritans parasites. In other words, the quarantine procedure instigates a 'bloom' of the parasite which will make it visible to the aquarist. When this happens, treatment is appropriate with one of the three proven treatments.

14. All white nodules fall off the fish and move on to the cyst stage. Untrue. It has been discovered that, on very rare occasions (we don't know why) the white nodule will encyst and rupture while still on the fish.

15. UV and/or Ozone kills Cryptocaryon irritans. Ozone doesn't kill all parasites that pass through the unit, nor does the water treated with ozone kill the parasites. UV only kills the parasites that pass through the unit. Since the entire water volume does not pass through the unit, not all ich parasites will pass through the unit, so the UV will not rid an aquarium of Cryptocaryon irritans. A UV can help prevent a 'bloom' of the parasites however, and thus help in its control. UV is not a cure nor a preventative measure for Cryptocaryon irritans. When water is shared by multiple tanks, usage of UV can make spreading this parasite from tank to tank significantly less likely.

16. All spots are Cryptocaryon irritans. Untrue. Probably one of the most problematic causes for rumors and “myth-information” in the hobby is assuming that a spot is Cryptocaryon irritans when it may be another parasites or conditions (e.g., pimple-like reaction to infection) that look like Cryptocaryon irritans. The mis-diagnosis is often the cause for claims of what cured Cryptocaryon irritans, when the fish didn't have Cryptocaryon irritans to start with.

17. My LFS quarantines their fishes for 2 weeks and I only buy them to be sure they are healthy and free of Cryptocaryon irritans. Have you been reading the above? First, 2 weeks is not long enough. Secondly most LFS share water among their fish system tanks so if any new arrivals happened, the clock is effectively reset back to zero.
 
Well, I would like to thank all you guys for the help. I have learned so much with this topic. Too bad I could not save the fish.

I hope the others remain good.

Thanks again for all the help and time trying to help.

Regards

Roberto
 
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