my diy needle wheel dart pump
- Thread starter spazz
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6326305#post6326305 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
ok guys. time out.this is not about venturie design. its about pump impellor design. im out to see if the dart pump would make a good diy needle wheel. if you guys want to send me venturies to put on it for testing just send me a pm. i will send you my address.
Sorry, I was just trying to help eliminate that air pump.
Don
Beenalongtime79
New member
Looks promising, but still not up to the efficiency of those damn RD pumps. How in the world do they do it?
As a single pump solution, I think it's great. I hope that you figure something out soon so we can all find out how to do it as well.
Hehe
Peace,
John H.
As a single pump solution, I think it's great. I hope that you figure something out soon so we can all find out how to do it as well.
Hehe
Peace,
John H.
spazz
New member
the biggest reason i dont show pics of the impellor is that there might be people who try this at home and fail at it. then they blame me for water damage or runing there $200 pump. if i can work it out to make an effecient one first then get it on a skimmer to test it long term it might be a good diy project in the future.
as for the red dragon they use space age stuff that costs a fortune. in the end you pay huge sums of money you would wouldnt get back in elecrtical savings for years.
i would rather find a cost effective pump like a sequence that puts out large volumes of air for less watage than the smaller ocean runners or sedras will.
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
Space age...lol...I bet its just regular Titanium...heck the new ones arent even that, I think they are just delrin.
You know, the dart NW might not have quite the same low wattage as a BK pump, BUT, its a fraction of the cost, and, it can deal with back-pressure much better than those RD pumps. RD pumps have a horrible pressure curve because they are 'low wattage, high flow' pumps. Thats why you dont see a BK over 3' tall with a RD pump. But a dart...well...we can all see it can pump bubbles into a 6' tall chamber, and maybe up to 400square inches of cross sectional area (equal to a square 2o inch pipe), which is something like having a 6x beckett skimmer...150watts...>>>eat my shorts BK!
You know, the dart NW might not have quite the same low wattage as a BK pump, BUT, its a fraction of the cost, and, it can deal with back-pressure much better than those RD pumps. RD pumps have a horrible pressure curve because they are 'low wattage, high flow' pumps. Thats why you dont see a BK over 3' tall with a RD pump. But a dart...well...we can all see it can pump bubbles into a 6' tall chamber, and maybe up to 400square inches of cross sectional area (equal to a square 2o inch pipe), which is something like having a 6x beckett skimmer...150watts...>>>eat my shorts BK!
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=145358
The specs for making a bypass venturi with more adjustability^^^.
The specs for making a bypass venturi with more adjustability^^^.
spazz
New member
i will think on this one. first i have to figure out where in the heck im going to store 75 g of salt water thats in the test tank! lol then i can work on a beter more refined version of the impellor . after that then i can get to the venturie design. that might work well. we will see. i want to see if sequence will send me a couple of impellors to work with. i think the 4300 would work better. what do you think? i also have to work on getting my 20" acrylic tube home so i can see how it works in a shorter fatter design. say 20" diam 4 ft tall.ya think it would work? or do i need to tear into my second dart and modify that one too?
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
I was going to go 18" square, 72" tall on mine...thats about the same area as a 20"tube. I think 6' tall can be done...mount the pump higher, then angle its output downward with a long-elbow downward and 2' from the bottom of the chamber. What gets me going isnt so much the bubble production...heck, BK can keep that title...I want height and dwell time...ok, and as any bubbles...lol.
Beenalongtime79
New member
I agree with the 'space age' comment, they definitely use very high quality materials, from head to toe, the NW itself is titanium, but they also use some very, very nice ball bearings which supposedly makes them even more efficient. 
But I agree with you Scott, I think what you are doing is really awesome. Long live the big skimmer! I hope that you are able to create something that everyone will be able to duplicate or benefit from in the future.
Peace,
John H.
But I agree with you Scott, I think what you are doing is really awesome. Long live the big skimmer!
I hope that you are able to create something that everyone will be able to duplicate or benefit from in the future.Peace,
John H.
HTK,
Should work. This is the same setup as the Mazzei injector flow adjusters. I know yours is for the suction side.
Also, 6' is pretty tall, even with a span of only 18". Are you using 3/4" material?
John,
Havent seen you around for awhile. Have you actually been studying something other than skimmers?
Nice work again, Spazz.
Should work. This is the same setup as the Mazzei injector flow adjusters. I know yours is for the suction side.
Also, 6' is pretty tall, even with a span of only 18". Are you using 3/4" material?
John,
Havent seen you around for awhile. Have you actually been studying something other than skimmers?
Nice work again, Spazz.
Beenalongtime79
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6333663#post6333663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
HTK,
Should work. This is the same setup as the Mazzei injector flow adjusters. I know yours is for the suction side.
Also, 6' is pretty tall, even with a span of only 18". Are you using 3/4" material?
John,
Havent seen you around for awhile. Have you actually been studying something other than skimmers?
Nice work again, Spazz.
Hey Chris,
I've been out of it for awhile. It's the third year and my clerk rotations have taken me out of the game. Hehe
Peace,
John H.
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
You got it H20ENG, its pretty much a venturi for the intake. For the 18"x18"x72" tall monster, I prolly will use 3/4" if it ends up that tall. The original plan was a 6xbeckett skimmer with a 12x12x72 main body...but with this dart...maybe 18" is better? Who knows. The whole thing is on hold for now until I know what the pump will be.
There is actually a use for this skimmer as well...a 1500g reef that a friend is making. He said that if I make it for less yet better than the BK he was looking at, he will split the difference with me... and its kind of fun.
There is actually a use for this skimmer as well...a 1500g reef that a friend is making. He said that if I make it for less yet better than the BK he was looking at, he will split the difference with me... and its kind of fun.
spazz
New member
alot of it depends on the design. im finding out that the pins have to be smaller on my design and more of them. instead of bigger pins. but your design is different than mine. the biggest problem is head presure. this design wont handle any type of head presure. so i think im going to scrap the idea and start over with a different design. the velocity of the water is not enough to over come the head pressure. i dont think any large pump will over come the 4 ft of head presure involved here. the smaller pumps can because of the rpm's of the motor. this is a slow rpm motor, so it has a larger diamiter intake which leads to decreased velocity. but the promising news is that the more air injected into the pump the lower the wattage goes. i had a reading of 110w at 60 scfh. thats almost as low as a sedra 9000. nomatter what impellor you use and venturie you use i dont think it will overcome the head pressure problem. but for a skimmer bodythats shorter (4 ft or less) it would be a great pump. the other problem is any fittings on the outlet of the pump decreases its performance by over 50%i ned to find a supplyer of titanium rod that is small diam. i still want to try my next design out and see how it works for chopping up bubbles. this design is not bad but it could be better.
Herbert T. Kornfeld
In Memoriam
How about rather than mounting the pump lower, mount the pump at the top of the skimmer and run the outlet straignt down into the skimmer like a downdraft tube. It seems pumps like this do a better job at pushing water than sucking air.
Also, for the impeller, have you considered a mix of two or three blades to help with the actual flow and pressure, and then the needles around that to shred?
The other option is the "Aquamedic" option. Instead of a flat disk with a bunch of parallel pins that cuts down the flow, a radial pin arrangement allows for better application of force on the water.
Also, for the impeller, have you considered a mix of two or three blades to help with the actual flow and pressure, and then the needles around that to shred?
The other option is the "Aquamedic" option. Instead of a flat disk with a bunch of parallel pins that cuts down the flow, a radial pin arrangement allows for better application of force on the water.
spazz
New member
unless i redesign the impellor from the start i cant put anything on the intake of the pump. it slows the mix down too much. even with a pipe thats been bent with a large radius curve in it to minimize the flow restriction. it just dont like any restriction at all. this is why im considering a newer design. we will just have to see how it goes. i need a lathe for this to work right. plus i need to get some new parts from sequence. i want a new pump housing so i can relieve some areas inside the housing that cause turbulance in the pump.
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