my diy needle wheel dart pump
- Thread starter spazz
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alpine
New member
I put together a ruff diagram of the planned setup with paint.If you have any questions about it let me know.All I am left with is the design of the skimmer.Once I get that,I am going to start buying stuff to put this together.Also the overflow should more then be able to handle a lot of flow.Btw, I have 45"HX20"LX20"W space for the skimmer.
Heres a look down view of the entire setup.
This is the left stand, standing in front of it.
This is the right stand, standing in front of it.
Heres a look down view of the entire setup.
This is the left stand, standing in front of it.
This is the right stand, standing in front of it.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
I agree. The teeth are somewhat useless, but there are some critters that are dang determined to 'jump ship'. This could be compendated for by not using teeth, but by using another piece of acrylic parallel to the overflow, yet slightly higher, exactly 1/4" behind the outer overflow wall. This eliminates restriction from the teeth all together, providing an even slimmer surface extraction, yet allows only a 1/4" linear slot so things that are larger than this cant get into the overflow. I have done this on tanks when I use a 'fake back wall' style overflow.
Let me back up for a sec here...do you get the type of overflow I am talking about here?
Let me back up for a sec here...do you get the type of overflow I am talking about here?
spazz
New member
alpine. there has to be more room there somewhere for a bigger foot print on the skimmer. even if you had a dart needle wheel for the feed pump, you would still exceed the 20"x20" foot print with a 12'' diam reaction chamber. and if you went the conventional way of 3-4 ocean runners or sedras you would be way over that foot print. is there another location in the house where that skimmer could be put? its such a limiting factor to have that foot print so small. the height is ok. but the foot print needs to be bigger at least 1 direction. say 24"-28"x 20". any thought you can give me on that?
as to the overflow. it don't matter what you do as long as you have an overflow that is over half the distance of the back wall of the tank. but the full back wall of the tank would be the best. teeth or no teeth. that part is personal preference.
as to the overflow. it don't matter what you do as long as you have an overflow that is over half the distance of the back wall of the tank. but the full back wall of the tank would be the best. teeth or no teeth. that part is personal preference.
alpine
New member
Am I missing something here.I dont see how a 12" diameter tube can exceed a 20"X20" footprint.I can see if I went with the 4 OR 3700.Then they would add to the total size.Keep in mind that I will have a 20"X24" footprint,but the is only for a 28" height.From 28" to 45" I will have a 20"X20" space.Thats why I wanted to go with the dart as I could run that one pump and I could face it towards the back and it would have sufficient space.Hard to explain,but I believe I can stuff a 16" diameter skimmer in there.Haveing trouble enlargeing the pics.To tired to mess around with it now,but I will see what I can do tomorrow to make them bigger.
spazz
New member
of so what your saying is the 20x20 area is 45" tall but there is room farther back under a ledge or shelf that the pump can sit. right? if that the way it is designed than there is no problem getting a huge skimmer in there. the pump would sit low down by the base of the skimmer, and it would be under the 28" height restriction in that area. are you planning on building this skimmer yourself? if so what will you use for the main chamber that's 16" in diam? PVC??? or acrylic??? depending on the body I might be willing to help you out with the needle wheel part. that's not for sure though. the skimmer body has to fit the pump or it wouldn't be worth doing. the performance wouldn't be there to justify building one. the needle wheel that's being sent to Florida is a perfect example of a well built body that is worth the 6 hrs of my time building this. his skimmer is huge and he also has the older style dart pump with the baldor motor on it. and the big sweetwater pump for supercharging the dart. I think you understand where I'm going with this. to build these for nothing and then watch them go on skimmers that are not built to handle the needle wheel is just a waist of time. don't take offence to what I'm saying, I'm just letting you know where I'm coming from.
the needle wheel I took over to energy's house is close by and can be adjusted easy. I'm right near by to fix problems if needed and can change anything I dislike with the test skimmer at anytime. he has given me full access to his system and I'm very grateful to him for trusting me with his beautiful system.
the needle wheel I took over to energy's house is close by and can be adjusted easy. I'm right near by to fix problems if needed and can change anything I dislike with the test skimmer at anytime. he has given me full access to his system and I'm very grateful to him for trusting me with his beautiful system.
alpine
New member
Yes the pump would sit under a space beneath the overflow box.So there is plenty of space for the pump to fit with a 16" diameter tube.As for tube material.It will definately be cast acrylic.I am definately not going to buld something out of pvc.I had thought of useing HDPE,but then I wouldnt be able to see into the skimmer.I am planning to build it myself(so far),but that might change.If I dont feel confident enough to do it,then I will just buy all the materials and have someone(hint-hint) put it together for me.I dont want to go cheap on the skimmer parts as that would defeat the purpose of trying to build a high end skimmer.
By the way Spazz,no offense taken.I totally understand what your saying,and I agree with you on that.Thanks for the help Spazz.I am eager to get started on buying things,but want to make sure that I have the complete setup designed and layed out before I start to make my purchases.Do you think I should try to get a used dart with the baldor motor,instead of a new one for the skimmer?
By the way Spazz,no offense taken.I totally understand what your saying,and I agree with you on that.Thanks for the help Spazz.I am eager to get started on buying things,but want to make sure that I have the complete setup designed and layed out before I start to make my purchases.Do you think I should try to get a used dart with the baldor motor,instead of a new one for the skimmer?
spazz
New member
if at all posable i would try my best to get the baldor motor. there a trusted motor in the industral trade. any electrian will tell you the same thing. they will run cooler and be more effecient because of better construction. the entire body is aaluminum and has the fins running the entire leinght of the motor. that will help cool the motor when its under load. and these needle wheel seem to pull hard on the motors. even though its running at 125 watts there is a little heat generated from it.but its not too much heat either. i just fell its the better nmotor to use. if you cant get one then i would spend the extra money on a kill-a-watt meter. anyone with a reef tank should have one for testing there equiptment anyways. there are some false wattages posted for some of the pumps and lighting ballasts out there. dr. foster smith has them if your looking ofr one. other whise fleabay has had them too.
now for the skimmer design. you will need a defuser plate designed into the bottom of your skimmer. because of the size of the body you will need that to reduce the turbulance inside. that dart puts out a massive amount of turbulance in a short chamber like that. then you will need a 6" diam riser so the water level can be up near the middle of the riser tube. anything below the bottom ofthe riser in the cone area will result in lost performance. just like we are having with big ugly. you might want to think about a short cup. that way you have a taller body .more reaction time in there. the cone will be the biggest chalange for you. its a must for a skimmer this size. a flat plate instead of the cone will result in a major loss in performance. ask energy about that one. he will confirm that. if you can afford a larger tube it would be better. they sell 18" diam tubes at carr mc master in chicago. i recomend a 1/4" thick one. the 1/8" thick tubes wouldnt be strong enough for a skimmer that size. any vibration could burst the main body like a baloon. well now that i have your head spinning im going to go test my calcium on my tank and make adjustments.
let me know what your thought are after your head quits spinning. :lol:
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
So let me get this straight...the older ones, with the blue body, 2" inlet and 1.5" outlet are better than the newer ones because the older ones had the baldor motor?
spazz
New member
any dart with a baldor motor would be better because they will run cooler. they have the fins all the way down the motor. the new AO Smith motors don't. so they might run hotter. I feel its would be better to have an industrial motor with a proven track record than a motor that is a little cheaper built. that's just my opinion though. only time will tell. I own 1 dart with the baldor motor and 1 with out. once I get a body together to test the second AO Smith motor we will know for sure if it will run cooler or not. but I feel the baldor is the way to go. there indestructible motors.
causeofhim
New member
Just finished 13 pages and I'm drooling.
Great work Spazz!
Great work Spazz!
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
The blue shroud ones are the baldor ones, right? Werent there other problems with this pump though? Like shroud cracking or something? I cant remember.
dgasmd
New member
The problem was with the plastic clear blue wet ends. It was brittle and would develop hailine cracks very easily. Sequence discontinued using those and would replace them to anyone for the black ones too. HOwever, they also changed the Baldor motors they used for the 750, 1000, and reefflo series. If you can find pictures fromt he older style motors, you can see they had fins all around the body. The new motors do not have them. They do have a bigger casing though that is supposed to aid in cooling. Still. all of the older style motors witht he fins run much cooler and are much more efficient. My guess is that they also last much much longer despite both, the new and old, being "industrial strength". I am just glad that all the ones I own (7 of them) are of the older style.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Would taking a new one and adding thermal paste and heatsink fins to the motor shroud take care of this then?
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