My ich battle log

[BryanW]

I'm not an expert, so please don't flame me for the path I am choosing...

Set up new tank(375gal in wall) about a year ago. Took old fish out of 180 reef and put them into new tank, 2-3 at a time. Powder blue the last one to go in. I have had him for over 2 years. Wake up the next morning, and just about all my fish have Ich. Drained the tank, caught all the fish(what a hassle in a in wall tank!) and placed half of them in a QT tank, the other half took back for credit at LFS. Waited 10 weeks and treated all fish with cupramine. All fish survived and showed no signs of any disease. Started to add them a few at a time. After 3rd addition(blue tang) ich was back. The blue tang was covered. I made my mind up that I was not going to go through that again and decided to try something different. I left the BT in the tank with the other fish, purchased a Aqua 120w UV, and have been feeding a regime of vitamin soaked foods.

I added all fish and have not seen the ich return in over a month now. I know this goes against everything that has been sated and documented but it seems to be working.

I'll keep everyone posted and will document each new addition to the tank. Going to hold off for about another couple weeks though for any additional fish.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Tagging along with interest.

 

[BryanW]

Once again, disclaimer...not saying my method is the way to go, just documenting some facts for all to take, and do what you want with the info...

Update...been two weeks now with UV in place and heavy feeding of vitamin soaked foods. All 3 of my firefish had ich spots and were scratching all day long. Now, all 3 of them are clear 100%, with no scratching taking place. 3 of my seven anthius all had spots as well, with all of them now showing no spots, and all are eating whatever I throw in the tank.

Going to wait about 2 more weeks, and throw another blue tang in.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Good to hear, but waiting another two weeks before adding a fish may not be long enough. I forget what the length of time is between stages of the ick's lifecycle but you may not be seeing any spots because they are in the cyst stage now. I've done nothing with my infected tank for the past 3 weeks (taking the plunge this weekend, I think) and my surviving fish look perfectly healthy. I'd like to think that means the ick is gone but intellectually I know it can't be.

Keep us posted.
Sue

 

[b0bab0ey]

Here's what it comes down to: You have two choices, you can either manage Ich or eradicate Ich. It sounds like you first tried to eradicate it but for whatever reason it came back (or never left). Sometimes failure to eradicate it comes down to human error, but I'm starting to discover that sometimes it's due to Ich not playing by the rules, so to speak. For example, I just read an article that claims sometimes it can take up to 72 days for copper/hypo to work because it can take that long for the life cycle to reach the point where it is affected by said treatments. Can a fish even live in high copper/hypo for 72 days?!

IMO what you are doing will probably work for the time being. You are keeping the number of parasites in the water column in check with the UV while simultaneously boosting your fishes immune systems with vitamins. Unfortunately, if anything ever drastic happens (fish get stressed from fighting, power loss, temp drop) then the Ich will probably seize that opportunity to gain the upper hand and wipe your tank out. Fish parasites are just like human parasites, very opportunistic. So, in short, while your approach may win you many battles ultimately Ich will most likely win the war.

Not trying to flame you or anything. Just telling you the way I see it.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Ich cysts release their theronts from the substrate, almost always at night. almost all fish sleep on the substrate. How do all the theronts find the UV intake before they find a fish host? UV has been discussed (out or desperation, IMO) as a ich cure since I can remember. It will not and cannot cure or prevent ich. Even worse, it gives false optimism , thus delaying real treatment. A small, leaky band-aid, at best.

 

[BryanW]

update: Introduced a hippo, naso, and a yellow eye last week. Since I know I have ich in my tank, I did not place them in QT(I know I'm playing with fire here). All fish are doing well with zero signs of Ich. The Nasso did not eat for a couple of days, but is now coming around and just a minute ago ate a lot. Keep everyone posted.

 

[snorvich]

Ich cysts release their theronts from the substrate, almost always at night. almost all fish sleep on the substrate. How do all the theronts find the UV intake before they find a fish host? UV has been discussed (out or desperation, IMO) as a ich cure since I can remember. It will not and cannot cure or prevent ich. Even worse, it gives false optimism , thus delaying real treatment. A small, leaky band-aid, at best.

I agree. Understand the life cycle, then treat accordingly.

 

[h2so4hurts]

update: Introduced a hippo, naso, and a yellow eye last week. Since I know I have ich in my tank, I did not place them in QT(I know I'm playing with fire here).

You're not playing with fire. You know you have ich and they're all going to get it eventually. You'd be better off avoiding tangs altogether, IMHO, but it's your choice. There's nothing wrong with managing the problem, but you could probably save yourself a couple bucks a month on energy costs by turning off the UV. Its not going to do anything on a tank that size. :deadhorse:

 

[sandwi54]

UV would prevent a huge infestations if you have good flow in the tank, such that when the theronts are formed they can be swept away by the flow before they find fish hosts. However, there are still going to be a percentage of the theronts who are able to attach to fish prior to being sucked way by the filter, so you will probably not cure the disease.

Keep in mind that even though fish don't show the external white spots, they are still infected in the gills, which where infections happen the most since gill tissues are soft and easily penetrable. Don't be fooled into thinking that if the fish don't show white spots, they are not infected.

 

[b0bab0ey]

UV would prevent a huge infestations if you have good flow in the tank, such that when the theronts are formed they can be swept away by the flow before they find fish hosts. However, there are still going to be a percentage of the theronts who are able to attach to fish prior to being sucked way by the filter, so you will probably not cure the disease.

After further research, I would say a UV is a good idea for those who choose the "managing Ich" route. I still think "managing Ich" is a bad idea and don't endorse it by any means. But if you're going to do it then your game plan should be keeping the number of parasites in your tank down to a minimum while boosting your fishes immune systems to fight off any remaining parasites. A properly running UV will kill any parasite that passes through it, so while it will never completely eradicate the problem it will help to keep it somewhat under control. But man, have you seen the price on replacement bulbs for most UVs? Most experts agree you have to change the bulb every 6 months for a UV to be 100% effective. I'd rather blow that money on a QT instead.

 

[BryanW]

Now over a 6 weeks and all fish are doing extremely well. Zero signs of ich on any of the fish. Occasionally I would see my firefish scratch on the bottom, but they don't even do that any longer. All fish are getting extremely fat, and all the tangs are now accepting nori as well. Going to add a couple more tangs either this week or next. Probably going to take the plunge and do a Powder Blue. Keep you posted.

 

[geaux xman]

I think a big UV certainly helps control the situation. I'd run one too if it wasnt for the cost and extra plumbing.

I'd very curious to see how it works out for the hippo and pbt after a prolong stay in the DT.

 

[Wistler]

Tagging a long as well, since it seems I seek out every thread on the Ich crisis.

I have a 180 that is fallow due to an Ich outbreak. My original four fish (Foxface, Humu trigger, Yellow Tang, Flasher Wrasse) are all fine and resistant, but likely infected. However all healthy new additions would die of ich after a week.

I currently have TWO complete QT systems running with Cupramine and I am treating all the fish and running fallow.

I mention this because I read a lot and a LOT about UV units before I ever filled my 180 with water. I chose to run an Aqua U/V 57 Watt unit at under 180 GPH based on speaking with the manufacturer. This turns over the water every hour in the tank and is an effective exposure rate to render the parasites sterile that pass through it.

With that being said UV is NOT a cure for Ich, because as was mentioned your fish sleep on the substrate where the parasite thrives. Ever see your fish have spots in the morning when you turn your lights on, but then they are gone by dinner time? I know I did.

I wish you luck with your tank and U/V, but I know for me I felt better going the fallow/ QT route for 8-9 weeks and starting fresh. I know you DID that already and I have no idea why ich came back (or never left....72+ days plus needed ?)

I also dose my food with Zoe, Selcon, and Vitachem and soak the nori in garlic. That being said, going forward when it comes time to purchase new fish I am going to shy away from some of the tangs I thought I wanted and choose less ich prone fish for my 180 FOWLR.

Just as an aside, I have heard of a lot of reports from people online and local reefers who had run fallow for 8-10 weeks and STILL had ich in their display. Some of these folks were very responsible so if they say they had no cross contamination and the copper levels were kept at .50ppm during the 3-4 week QT, its disenheartening. I can only hope that after the next six weeks goes by and I reintroduce I am not back to square one...

 

[BryanW]

Update: Been almost 3 months now and not one fish loss. I have not seen one white spot on any of the fish since about 2 weeks after UV install. I have stopped feeding frozen food and have been soley relying on my auto feeder with various dry foods mixed in. I also cut up some pieces of Nori and placed them as well inside the feeder. I will be traveling a lot in the coming months so I just want to see now if this will sustain the fish over a two week period while I'm gone. All fish eat the dry food like it's a frenzy. Looking to add more fish but have been working so much just have not had the time. Updates again to follow.

 

[geaux xman]

which pump and how much flow are you putting thru the UV? or did you build a manifold from your return pump?

 

[yachtdr22]

:headwally:

I wonder how many have had ICH return after a proper fallow period??

 

[Tat2demon]

the other half took back for credit at LFS.

Am I the only one angry about this?

You knowingly passed on diseased fish not only to someone else, but to a store where they would most certainly infect several tanks. I wouldn't even give a snail to someone if I thought for a second my fish had a disease. You should be ashamed.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Am I the only one angry about this?

You knowingly passed on diseased fish not only to someone else, but to a store where they would most certainly infect several tanks. I wouldn't even give a snail to someone if I thought for a second my fish had a disease. You should be ashamed.

The LFS almost certainly has fish with ich, and they likely treat with copper.
Passing it on to another reefer without warning would have been bad but I don't see anything wrong with what he did.

 

[Tat2demon]

The LFS almost certainly has fish with ich, and they likely treat with copper.

Then I guess by all means, help kill more...