My New Build: Sump house

[mytankrules]

Good day all,

I have been lurking here for ages (about 2 - 3 years), owned two tanks one 200l (got my interest going) and another 800l (was my SPS pride and joy). The 800l ended up with the silicone ripped on one end and everything on the floor. It was my pride and joy. That put me off the hobby for about two years. :angryfire::angryfire:

I eventually moved to a bigger house and have been saving up for my end state tank

I am planning a 396 US gal tank with a 792 US gal outside sump / pool.

I have been doing about six months of planning with about four full files of all my research, I thought it was time to put some theories out here and I have noticed others like:

@bnumair
@uncleof6

commenting on some outside sump installations. There are some very valid points when it comes to outside sumps (feel free to add where need be if I have missed something):

The big ones I know of:

1. Temp fluctuations both Heat and Cold - caused from DIRECT temperature i.e. sun, wind chill and thermal temperature due to the fact that the sump /pool will be in the ground
2. Flooding of the area (if you are going to use a "pool" type sump which I am)
3. Contaminate protection, a garden can have many different contaminates i.e. pesticides, cut grass plants etc.

So here is my plan ( I will be updating this thread with the actual plans):

1. Right now I am using paper and pens to draw everything so my first question: I have seen many threads with some really good digital pics of tanks, skimmers etc is there a program I can purchase for that?

The sump area:

It receives 75% sun during winter and summer. Summer is harsh in my country (more on this later). I have a space 2m wide x 6m that I am planning on building this. It is in a part of the house that is in the garden but far from any "gardening".

Electricity points have already been run to that area.

The building of the area:

The surrounding walls will be 12" with 4" of the 12" a gap that is going to be filled with insulation. The wall will be 80 high. Inside this rectangle there will be a cement foundation and floor (still thinking if I should tile it...). I have thought about the flooding and the whole area will be tilted 15 degrees at the end I will have a 50mm pipe running down the length and down each side of the width as drainage out of the housing..

In the middle you will have a (Internal dimensions) 90cm x 3.1m "Pool", for those of you that have had Koi think of it as a Koi pond. I am still researching the material for the internal, reenforced steel, pool cement and fiber glass lining or epoxy. The sump design is still up for debate (any idea's welcome).

The roof

The roof I am thinking of insulated roofing to help with temperatures, because of the length I will split it into three openings (most likely aligned with he chambers in the sump).

I have an idea in one part of the roof to build a algae scrubber... as I have the surface and the sun.

I am also going to leave one chamber with access to the sun (the roof will allow it through) to either grow frags or to allow for cheato etc to grow.

Additional Water (RO / Water Changes)

On the wall next to where this is being built I am going to build a "stand" where I am going to have two 500L drums (enclosed by brick work), one for RO and the other for fresh salt water mix. These then can gravity feed the sump.

Electrics

In the corner a electric housing (of bricks etc) is going to be built for the profilux etc and of course connected to the rest of the house via Ethernet for monitoring

I am currently working with a local solar panel supplier to figure out if I could use this as my primary source of power backed up by batteries and finally the grids electricity if all else fails.


Now lets deal with the items of concern:

Heating

Winters are cold but this is pretty easy to deal with - heaters.

Cooling

I have sourced the fans they use in green houses for tomatoes and or other plants. These are circular with slats that close, they have a temperature control if it reaches a certain temperature they open the slats and the fans turn on to create circulation. I am going to see how much this helps otherwise I can always add a chiller to the system for cooling.

Humidity

I must be honest I am not sure how I am going to deal with this yet and am not to sure if I need to deal with it? We all have condensation but since this will be pretty much an enclosed area in the sump.

I know I have covered this quickly but wanted to get the essence of what I am doing out side on a post There are quite a few paper drawings, research files etc behind this However there is nothing like experience and hence why I am reaching out here.

The interesting part

Now the tank is inside the house about 40m (in total with bends etc) from the sump area outside. There is about a gravity drop of around 2m (6 foot) to the pool house.

I was wondering I know in the building fraternity (well that's what my builder says ) you have a ratio for gravity systems i.e. sewerage. They use a 1:5 or 1:8 drop to remove sewerage via gravity this means:

If the pipe is 50mm then you need the equivalent 5x the 50mm in drop to cause enough velocity for enough gravity to remove the water. I will try demonstrate:

Imagine this is a 50mm pipe
___
|
|__

To have the right gravity pull for the water to get from the display I need (this is a question) either 1:5 or 1:8 ratio of drop:

__ORIGINAL PIPE (1)
|
|__
__RATIO PIPE (2)
|
|__
__RATIO PIPE (3)
|
|__
__RATIO PIPE (4)
|
|__
__RATIO PIPE (5)
|
|__

This level for the end of the pipe for the gravity to pull the water wastage.
Make sense?

The display I haven't designed yet, I have 70cm width for now, I am thinking of a high stand (to add to the height for gravity), shallow and long to allow for the "breathing" of the tank.

I am really looking forward to this build and esp all the experience and guidance any of you might have. I have budgeted quite a bit for this project and got the wife on board too

 

[Mpy]

If you are looking for a something to make computerized sketches/designs, check out Google sketch up, its free and fairly easy to use even if your computer is pretty awful (i.e. a 5 yr old machine with vista).

I think if you are having fans to help with air export/cooling there shouldn't be too much issue with humidity, but I don't have much experience with outdoor sumps & such.

Good luck with this!

 

[mytankrules]

If you are looking for a something to make computerized sketches/designs, check out Google sketch up, its free and fairly easy to use even if your computer is pretty awful (i.e. a 5 yr old machine with vista).

I think if you are having fans to help with air export/cooling there shouldn't be too much issue with humidity, but I don't have much experience with outdoor sumps & such.

Good luck with this!

Thank you I will download it and play around with it.

I thought that as well (the fans), it will speed up evaporation though...

 

[Reefer54]

just a thought, but if you dig deep enough, you may hit permafrost, which could help with the heat issue in the summer and also add to the ratio for your gravity drop..... but good luck, sounds like fun.

 

[Irishreefer007]

When you ask about ratio of waste water flow these ratios are calculated with the waste movement in mind. You don't have this problem no waste all you need is water movement the best you can get IMO
Hope this helps
Paul

 

[mytankrules]

When you ask about ratio of waste water flow these ratios are calculated with the waste movement in mind. You don't have this problem no waste all you need is water movement the best you can get IMO
Hope this helps
Paul

Thank you Paul, so as long as there is enough angle for the water to move in the desired direction that should be adequate enough?

 

[mytankrules]

just a thought, but if you dig deep enough, you may hit permafrost, which could help with the heat issue in the summer and also add to the ratio for your gravity drop..... but good luck, sounds like fun.

I was thinking of the potential of the the thermal properties of the ground around the sump. I am just not sure what they will be if it will affect it that much and in which way it would affect it i.e. In summer the ground is cooler, in winter the ground is warmer or vice versa.

 

[Reefer54]

my depths may be off, but not too much...but in my area, the perma frost layer starts at 48 inches, and there even some houses that use the lower level to store food and freese food all year below 72 inches....but it would be worth checking into i think. If the sump area is going to be enclosed, you should theorhetically only have to worry about heating, not cooling so much....again this would help with the angled flow of your drain, and it may even have a substantial effect on the humidity. agian, just an idea. It's probably cheaper to dig a hole than build, cool, heat, dehumidify, and maintain. I dunno.

 

[mytankrules]

my depths may be off, but not too much...but in my area, the perma frost layer starts at 48 inches, and there even some houses that use the lower level to store food and freese food all year below 72 inches....but it would be worth checking into i think. If the sump area is going to be enclosed, you should theorhetically only have to worry about heating, not cooling so much....again this would help with the angled flow of your drain, and it may even have a substantial effect on the humidity. agian, just an idea. It's probably cheaper to dig a hole than build, cool, heat, dehumidify, and maintain. I dunno.

Thats what I was thinking instead of building tanks I would look at building a tank / pool