My pair of Percs have some white fungus on them...what to do?
- Thread starter rykwong
- Start date
NicoleC
New member
Need photos. Marine fungus is very rare, even if it looks like one.
Is it a slime? Puffy? Cotton balls hanging off the fish?
Where exactly are the spots and how many? How fast did they appear, and are they getting larger, smaller, or staying the same? Any heavy breathing? Are they eating? Acting normal, or not?
Water parameters? How long have you had them and how old are they? Were they QT'd, and if so, what were they treated with, if anything?
Is it a slime? Puffy? Cotton balls hanging off the fish?
Where exactly are the spots and how many? How fast did they appear, and are they getting larger, smaller, or staying the same? Any heavy breathing? Are they eating? Acting normal, or not?
Water parameters? How long have you had them and how old are they? Were they QT'd, and if so, what were they treated with, if anything?
Looks like fuzzy cottom balls and seems to be spreading on them. I had them for about half a year and got them off someone who had them for over a year. One is eating not as much as usual and the other is barely eating. Also, seems to be breathing a little harder than usual. I cannot detect any ammonia, very little nitrate around 40, and temp is 79F. I'll try to get pics soon. They started not doing well when the tang got really sick and eventually died. From now on I will be QTing, but trying to figure out what to do from here. Thanks for the help NicoleC.
Rich
Rich
NicoleC
New member
Okay, but are the balls sort of hanging off them, or are they growths in the skin itself? This is a critical question.
Your nitrate level is quite high. I'd prep as large of a water change as you can manage -- matching salinity, temp and pH -- and as soon as the water is aged for 24 hours do the change. Reducing the nitrate will help them. Repeat. Let's get those levels under 5ppm.
But first, your clowns have ick. It's in the tank, and every fish in the tank (if there are others) has it now even if you don't see it. I suspect the stress of the ick, the aggressive new tank mate (now gone) and the high nitrates have caused this other illness to come to the forefront. But you must treat the whole situation to cure the clowns.
1) Water quality
2) Parasites (ick)
3) And this third illness, which is probably bacterial or viral
You need to start prepping a QT for all your fish to eliminate the ick, but we need to determine the nature of the other illness first to see what needs to be done about it.
Your nitrate level is quite high. I'd prep as large of a water change as you can manage -- matching salinity, temp and pH -- and as soon as the water is aged for 24 hours do the change. Reducing the nitrate will help them. Repeat. Let's get those levels under 5ppm.
But first, your clowns have ick. It's in the tank, and every fish in the tank (if there are others) has it now even if you don't see it. I suspect the stress of the ick, the aggressive new tank mate (now gone) and the high nitrates have caused this other illness to come to the forefront. But you must treat the whole situation to cure the clowns.
1) Water quality
2) Parasites (ick)
3) And this third illness, which is probably bacterial or viral
You need to start prepping a QT for all your fish to eliminate the ick, but we need to determine the nature of the other illness first to see what needs to be done about it.
The white stuff on the body is not hanging off. However, it is hanging off the side fins. I have an 80gal setup, how much water do you suggest I change? I will hopefully have a QT tank going by this weekend. How do you suggest I catch the fish, fish trap? Just when I was done with fish in my new setup......this happens. After upgrading all my equipment this problem has almost ruined it. I'm trying to hold on. Thanks again NicoleC
Rich
Rich
bennyinca
New member
I'd o what Nicole suggested, she is right on track as usual.
Does it look white stuff look like this?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/viraldislymph.htm
Does it look white stuff look like this?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/viraldislymph.htm
NicoleC
New member
Deep breath -- it's not as bad as it sounds. In fact, your reef tank will blossom with no fish, as worms and pods and such get a chance to grow their population without predation... and spawn larvae that feed your corals. Also, leaving the tank fallow for 6 weeks will kill off almost any parasites that could harm your fishes, not just ick, in case you have any nasties in there you haven't discovered yet. So you'll start with a clean slate and healthy fishies.
Catching clowns is easy -- just wait until they are sleeping and scoop them up in a jar, specimen container, etc.. If you have other fish, they may be more difficult.
I would do as large a water change as you can manage. Since you are removing the fish, this can wait until you have everyone settled in QT, if that's easier. The high nitrates are a symptom of overall poor water quality, not the ultimate culprit. If you can't handle a big water change, start stepping up your small water changes, 5-10g per day or whatever you can handle. 2 or 3 big changes will be easier and work faster, though.
If the cottony stuff is not hanging off the fish, it is probably a bacterial infection. The infection is probably caused by ick, as an opportunistic infection from the cysts. The heavy breathing is probably due to both the stress of illness and a lot of parasites in their gills.
Here's what I would do:
Prepare QT with all new water, well aged and aerated. Match pH, temp and salinity to the main tank. (You can also use tank water if you want.)
Before catching fish, prepare a freshwater bath. Be sure to match temp and pH to the main tank. You'll want a heater in the bath to keep it ready for you.
After capture, if the fish haven't been too stressed by chasing, give them a short bath in the FW. 5-10 minutes. Stay with the fish with water from their tank handy. If they start to get agitated or collapse on the bottom, take them out right away. (The FW dip will kill off a lot of the parasites and give them some relief.) Clowns will hardly notice a 5-10 minute batch.
Once in QT, give them a day to settle in them start treament with antibiotics. I suggest Furan-2, or, if they are eating well, Jungle Labs Anti-Bacterial Medicated Fish food. The food will be easy and direct, but they have to be eating. Both meds are similar and widely available at Petco, etc.
Daily, siphon the bottom of the tank to remove parasites.
After 5-10 days of the antibiotics, start hypo. (Unless the fish are not better, of course.) Directions here:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html
After hypo is done, the parasites should also have died out of your main tank and everyone can go back in.
Until you start treating the fish, keep your skimmer running and get lots of O2 in the tank to help them out.
Catching clowns is easy -- just wait until they are sleeping and scoop them up in a jar, specimen container, etc.. If you have other fish, they may be more difficult.
I would do as large a water change as you can manage. Since you are removing the fish, this can wait until you have everyone settled in QT, if that's easier. The high nitrates are a symptom of overall poor water quality, not the ultimate culprit. If you can't handle a big water change, start stepping up your small water changes, 5-10g per day or whatever you can handle. 2 or 3 big changes will be easier and work faster, though.
If the cottony stuff is not hanging off the fish, it is probably a bacterial infection. The infection is probably caused by ick, as an opportunistic infection from the cysts. The heavy breathing is probably due to both the stress of illness and a lot of parasites in their gills.
Here's what I would do:
Prepare QT with all new water, well aged and aerated. Match pH, temp and salinity to the main tank. (You can also use tank water if you want.)
Before catching fish, prepare a freshwater bath. Be sure to match temp and pH to the main tank. You'll want a heater in the bath to keep it ready for you.
After capture, if the fish haven't been too stressed by chasing, give them a short bath in the FW. 5-10 minutes. Stay with the fish with water from their tank handy. If they start to get agitated or collapse on the bottom, take them out right away. (The FW dip will kill off a lot of the parasites and give them some relief.) Clowns will hardly notice a 5-10 minute batch.
Once in QT, give them a day to settle in them start treament with antibiotics. I suggest Furan-2, or, if they are eating well, Jungle Labs Anti-Bacterial Medicated Fish food. The food will be easy and direct, but they have to be eating. Both meds are similar and widely available at Petco, etc.
Daily, siphon the bottom of the tank to remove parasites.
After 5-10 days of the antibiotics, start hypo. (Unless the fish are not better, of course.) Directions here:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html
After hypo is done, the parasites should also have died out of your main tank and everyone can go back in.
Until you start treating the fish, keep your skimmer running and get lots of O2 in the tank to help them out.
Yinger
Premium Member
wow... where did you learn all this from nicole? haha... quick question for you. I'm going to setup a quaratine tank when i have my tank up and running. I guess my question is if there is anything you have to do when quarantining the fish... You don't have to lower the salinity or anything do you?
I will try those things NicoleC, thanks for the help! Just that this happened to me once already about a year ago. I tried to do the hypo and maybe I did it wrong, but I eventually loss the fish I really wanted to keep alive. It's just been really frustrating with fish....time and money. I swear, I went in this hobby hoping to get enjoyment, but I've been getting a lot of stress and headaches. All my coral are doing great though! haha
Rich
Rich
Hey NicoleC,
If I pick up a 10gal tank, a heater, and a air pump what should I do about filtration? HOB filter with what in it??? I'd assume a sponge with good bacteria from the main tank. However, since I don't have a sponge already going this would take a while, right? Do I need a filter if I do consistent everyday/every other day water changes? Thanks!
Rich
If I pick up a 10gal tank, a heater, and a air pump what should I do about filtration? HOB filter with what in it??? I'd assume a sponge with good bacteria from the main tank. However, since I don't have a sponge already going this would take a while, right? Do I need a filter if I do consistent everyday/every other day water changes? Thanks!
Rich
rykwong,
I still have your tank sitting in my garage as my sister would not allow my cousins to have pets that she has to take care of. I also got a 5 gallon hex sitting in my backyard. If you need to use these for your fish you're welcome to borrow them for a few weeks.
The 5 gal should be good for dips while the 55 will hold them for awhile.
I haven't got fish with salt water diseases yet, but based on what Nicole is saying, it's similar to treating fresh water fish. Key is to reduce stress by giving it better environment to live in (having lots of plants and natural sunlight also seems to help achieve this) until the ich is gone. In regards to the fugus, antibact is the way to go. I used to just dilute/mix amphicilin or penicilin with the water that the fish stays in (low dosage). If you want to do dips, then go with higher dosage. For fresh water fishes, I also did a salt water dip, so it makes sense to do a fresh water dip to kill some of the nasties on the fish.
I didn't have much success with fishes that had ichs (lots of white spots) in their gills - i think it's too late to save them.
I still have your tank sitting in my garage as my sister would not allow my cousins to have pets that she has to take care of. I also got a 5 gallon hex sitting in my backyard. If you need to use these for your fish you're welcome to borrow them for a few weeks.
The 5 gal should be good for dips while the 55 will hold them for awhile.
I haven't got fish with salt water diseases yet, but based on what Nicole is saying, it's similar to treating fresh water fish. Key is to reduce stress by giving it better environment to live in (having lots of plants and natural sunlight also seems to help achieve this) until the ich is gone. In regards to the fugus, antibact is the way to go. I used to just dilute/mix amphicilin or penicilin with the water that the fish stays in (low dosage). If you want to do dips, then go with higher dosage. For fresh water fishes, I also did a salt water dip, so it makes sense to do a fresh water dip to kill some of the nasties on the fish.
I didn't have much success with fishes that had ichs (lots of white spots) in their gills - i think it's too late to save them.
NicoleC
New member
I prefer to add a small HOB filter to QT, however SEVERAL airstones will work for water movement and aeration. No carbon while treating with meds, though.
Either way, you may have to deal with the tank cycling. That means testing water daily -- or using an "Ammonia Alert" badge from SeaChem -- and having water changes and Amquel+ Plus ready if needed.
Hypo will not kill your fish and is very safe when properly done; you must pay close attention and go slow changing salinity! Also watch your pH in hypo, as it tends to drop. Hypo doesn't kill the ick right away, though, so if a fish is seriously infected it may suffocate before the hypo works -- hence the FW dip. The FW dip works on SW ich to immediately kill most of the adults in the gills. It doesn't work on the ich embedded in the skin, so it's not a cure.
Reducing stress and provided a good environment is important for any sick fish, but it won't cure ick permanently.
I've never dealt with FW ick, but I guess hypo isn't an option for the FW version! I suspect with FW ick you are only trying to boost the immune system so the fish fights off the parasite better? That works for SW fish, too, but the parasite is then still around and pops up in times of stress or attacks new fish.
It's better to just kill it once and for all -- and then prevent it from getting in the tank again by QT'ing *everything* wet. Staring at your new corals in QT for 4-6 weeks when you really want them in the main tank is annoying, but not nearly as annoying and stressful as dealing with sick fish, coral-eating nudibranches, flatworms or other problems once they are in the main tank.
For massively severe cases of ick, you don't have time to mess with hypo and have to go straight to copper. I don't like treating with copper -- it's hard to do and you have to be really exact and it's dangerous for the fishies if you goof at all. So just don't let the case get severe and act sooner to help your fishies.
You still haven't mentioned if there are other fish involved here?
Either way, you may have to deal with the tank cycling. That means testing water daily -- or using an "Ammonia Alert" badge from SeaChem -- and having water changes and Amquel+ Plus ready if needed.
Hypo will not kill your fish and is very safe when properly done; you must pay close attention and go slow changing salinity! Also watch your pH in hypo, as it tends to drop. Hypo doesn't kill the ick right away, though, so if a fish is seriously infected it may suffocate before the hypo works -- hence the FW dip. The FW dip works on SW ich to immediately kill most of the adults in the gills. It doesn't work on the ich embedded in the skin, so it's not a cure.
Reducing stress and provided a good environment is important for any sick fish, but it won't cure ick permanently.
I've never dealt with FW ick, but I guess hypo isn't an option for the FW version! I suspect with FW ick you are only trying to boost the immune system so the fish fights off the parasite better? That works for SW fish, too, but the parasite is then still around and pops up in times of stress or attacks new fish.
It's better to just kill it once and for all -- and then prevent it from getting in the tank again by QT'ing *everything* wet. Staring at your new corals in QT for 4-6 weeks when you really want them in the main tank is annoying, but not nearly as annoying and stressful as dealing with sick fish, coral-eating nudibranches, flatworms or other problems once they are in the main tank.
For massively severe cases of ick, you don't have time to mess with hypo and have to go straight to copper. I don't like treating with copper -- it's hard to do and you have to be really exact and it's dangerous for the fishies if you goof at all. So just don't let the case get severe and act sooner to help your fishies.
You still haven't mentioned if there are other fish involved here?
NicoleC,
Right now I have two percs (3inch and 2 inch) with that white fungus, a 2.5 inch blue tang which is slowly showing ick (I bought the two tangs together because they were friends in someone's previous tank) and 2 green chromis which are doing really well (I'm not sure how to catch them) What would I put in the HOB? Just a sponge? How should I catch the green chromis and blue tang since I have 110lbs of rock which will be a pain to move?
Rich
Right now I have two percs (3inch and 2 inch) with that white fungus, a 2.5 inch blue tang which is slowly showing ick (I bought the two tangs together because they were friends in someone's previous tank) and 2 green chromis which are doing really well (I'm not sure how to catch them) What would I put in the HOB? Just a sponge? How should I catch the green chromis and blue tang since I have 110lbs of rock which will be a pain to move?
Rich
NicoleC
New member
Filtration: just the sponge and any bio-media if included. You can run carbon after the antibiotics treatment is finished -- in fact, if you use an in-water antibiotic, running carbon post-treatment is preferred.
All of those fish will do fine with a FW dip and hypo; you have no special-needs fish there. The tang is still quite young, so treat him gingerly. Those clowns are full adults, though, and should be pretty darned robust.
Catching the chromis and the tang... well, you can try a fish trap. Or the night-time swoop. Or, drain the tank until there's only a few inches of water and they are easy to catch them. You can remove the rock, but without draining the tank anyway, they will still be tough to catch.
All of those fish will do fine with a FW dip and hypo; you have no special-needs fish there. The tang is still quite young, so treat him gingerly. Those clowns are full adults, though, and should be pretty darned robust.
Catching the chromis and the tang... well, you can try a fish trap. Or the night-time swoop. Or, drain the tank until there's only a few inches of water and they are easy to catch them. You can remove the rock, but without draining the tank anyway, they will still be tough to catch.
I also have an ozone generator if you need to use it. Should kill anything floating in the water and helps with the oxygenation (is this a word?)
You'll need to have high levels of oxygen in your water to assist the fish.
To treat FW ich, I used Malachite and raised temperature to mid 80s. Raising the temp speeds up their life cycle. The med only works in one of their stage. Other than that, there's not much else that could be done.
You'll need to have high levels of oxygen in your water to assist the fish.
To treat FW ich, I used Malachite and raised temperature to mid 80s. Raising the temp speeds up their life cycle. The med only works in one of their stage. Other than that, there's not much else that could be done.
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NicoleC,
When I finally somehow catch those fish and put them in the QT tank, I'm assuming follow the hypo steps for a month while the show tank cycles the ick away. I also have 3 cleaner shrimps and a coral banded shrimp. These guys won't carry the ick right? Last, do I wait this month before picking up any other new fish? Do I treat the couple fish I have left with hypo, eventually put them back in the tank, and then wait another month to treat the next round of fish?
Rich
When I finally somehow catch those fish and put them in the QT tank, I'm assuming follow the hypo steps for a month while the show tank cycles the ick away. I also have 3 cleaner shrimps and a coral banded shrimp. These guys won't carry the ick right? Last, do I wait this month before picking up any other new fish? Do I treat the couple fish I have left with hypo, eventually put them back in the tank, and then wait another month to treat the next round of fish?
Rich
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