My T5 55g tank....and coral lightening

Guys, this thread is about LIGHTING incase you didnt read it. We are all well aware there are other factors in SPS color/growth and accept that. HOWEVER, the fact that most of the people out there using T5 are experiencing very similar symptoms means that there is very likely a common cause and that is something to do with the T5 lighting. Like I pointed out, even Iwan's tank, which is widely accepted as one of the best T5 in the world (perhaps the best?) has some corals that look JUST LIKE MINE! His green slimer for example is NOT GREEN, its yellow green. Good color is nothing more than perspective, however, my personal taste is not pastels like the best T5 tanks typically have. My buddy owns one of the best zeo tanks in teh country so I have the unique ability to see what the corals CAN look like. I personally strive to keep the colors the same as they look in his tank, only to watch them fade in color over time. I am not here saying that the corals are any less healthy, but they are DIFFERENT. I personally like the way they look BEFORE they come to my tank and I want to keep them that way. I have strived to keep my tank as similar to his as possible. I also use zeovit, and I try to keep my water parms and husbandry practices in line with his. After all that there is one glaring difference between his tank and mine....he uses a TON (4x400w on a 240g) XM 20k MH light supplemented with overdriven T5 B+ and VHO SA. So at this point, it seems that MANY other T5 users are having the same issue as me, I can only assume that switching to MH will likely have an effect on the coral colors....I guess we will just have to wait and see.
 
sucks

sucks

Having some coral problems, just my Ora Blue Stag, and my ORA blue Acro, seem to be getting white band disease or something similar, God I hope its not red bugs!! I looks today polyp have been in for a few days, and some white lines in frag, the ora stag is just not coloring up anymore. I will try to post pics. I might do what you guys have been doing and reduce lighting period, funny thing is though. I am like 99% its not from the lighting but rather a disease or parasite as its only effecting 2 corals, all the others are doing great. Lucky its just small frags. sorry for off topic post guys

Any ideas?
David
 
Ditch - Sorry to hear about that. First 2 things I would check are your tank temp (and verify w/ second thermometer) and your alk. Some corals are more sensitive and show stress before others.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7603890#post7603890 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
One possible theory in support of my opinion, is that there are not only several color temps of bulbs, but several manufacturers also. Unless everyone starts listing their exact setup (including brand of bulbs, reflectors, and ballasts) we're all just wandering around without any real basis to start a productive experiment from.
I've been thinking this all along.

Are the European tanks using the same brands + exact same bulbs as most U.S. T-5 users? Are we positive about this?

What does the spectrometer tell us about these bulbs? PAR is very useful - but could some of these bulbs emit spikes in problematic wavelengths?

Given most T-5 setups are mixes of different bulbs, manufacturers, etc ... I see a lot of variation in what kind of light [not just PAR/intensity] people are growing corals under.

But I think your theory a good one....
 
I think its flawed....most peple are using the ATI/DD/Giessmann bulbs. The are all the same bulbs manufactured by a place in germany called Narva from what I have read. Tanks like IWAN, DANANO and the like all use the aquablue and blue+ bulbs. So do I and so do most people, they really are the only good T5 bulbs out there now and available to us in north america. URI/UVL is now making T5 bulbs so we will have to see what they are like.

This is the spectrum of the blue+/actinic+ bulb....
ACTINICDEEPOCEANGRAPH.jpg

And this is the aquablue
AQUABLUEGRAPH.jpg


Please chime in if you see anything out of the ordinary.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7607576#post7607576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dvanacker
I think its flawed....most peple are using the ATI/DD/Giessmann bulbs. The are all the same bulbs manufactured by a place in germany called Narva from what I have read. Tanks like IWAN, DANANO and the like all use the aquablue and blue+ bulbs. So do I and so do most people, they really are the only good T5 bulbs out there now and available to us in north america. URI/UVL is now making T5 bulbs so we will have to see what they are like.

This is the spectrum of the blue+/actinic+ bulb....
ACTINICDEEPOCEANGRAPH.jpg

And this is the aquablue
AQUABLUEGRAPH.jpg


Please chime in if you see anything out of the ordinary.

38553Plant-Human-Eye-Response_01.jpg


This is how plants react to the light. I'm thinking throwing a 3000K in a mix of aquablue and blue plus might do something interesting. The critters might not be getting enough red from the lamps we are typically using.
 
Horace, man I was not talking **** but alot of people do photoshop their pictures and that just doesn't look real so if he doesnt then props to him ---it is a compliment in a weird way.
No need to talk trash on the internet-------or assume what my corals look like.
---Now that I am done addressing this dude------
--This thread is about lighting but when other issues are pertinent to the discussion then it warrants bringing them up. Wake up man. Just because the topic is light doesn't mean everything else is irrelevant---now that ive done what you want and actually addressed you=======

Thanks Mothra---those params sound excellent--- I cant believe this dude actually tried to say this is a "lighting" thread when other factors are pertinent and all anyone is trying to do is help.
and yes, so far all this thread has established is we don't know squat for certain yet. Maybe you are right Horace---soon maybe all of us who like the rich color that we are used to seeing in MH lit tanks arent going to happen with T5's, but we live and learn. I propose also, that all the additives and that stuff is not necessarily gonna produce parallel results in another's tank. My philosophy is to keep it more natural, but your right thats a whole other thread topic.

I also propose that the best way to bring out the colors in your corals is through 20K MH, so a tank that has tons of it's colors will be more brilliant. Hopefully, we can get a comparable bulb in T5 one day.

Has anyone changed their bulbs over to the new ATI 12K or blue plus bulbs? . As I said earlier my Tek fix will be here in 3-5 business days, so due to this thread I did 2 sets of bubls----the Gies. and the ATI. Im gonna do an experiment and post what i observe, I talked to alot of people not on RC, particularly vendors selling the Tek fixtures and they say that with the GE bulbs you will undoubtedly see your corals bleach------crap bulbs period. The guy at ReefGeek actually said he liked the 12 K ATI bulb better than the aquablue Gies bulb, but he didnt elaborate. I am looking forward to separating the bulb brands and seeing what i can notice.

---Good point Grim----DO IT!!!!! Scorch em with the red and tell us what happens.


I have one question of everyone that is complaining about there colors, I know it was discussed but i dropped out of the conversation.-----How high off the the water surface are you keeping your fixtures????I will speculate those with some color problems have them right smack 1-2 inches off the water, but lets see?

This is beside the point, but yeah you need to feed your corals man. I have always noticed a huge difference in overall health and growth with feeding. Of course a large fuge does the trick, give the eggs a shot, but vary it. Just over a period of time, particularly if you can enrich the food(hard cuz for sps they need the small micro food) i think it will help the color.

------dvan----also about the SLR, if you are running a 55G that is 20 inches, that SLR basically pushing the light through the bottom of your tank like its hot!!!!!!!! Take them off and put the original reflectors on there. It wont hurt the corals, but if you think intensity is your problem as that is what this thread is about then do something about it like take the SLR's off and put the original reflectors on so long as they are individual.


Grim----Do you concur on the SLR idea???

One last comment, my little maxim for the day-----We are trying to duplicate a natural environment---dont forget that-----adding a **** ton of additives?---------are you doing weekly water changes?(ocean is constantly diluting itself)----------are you scorching your tank with too much light??----Do it natural......and leave it alone and watch what happens
 
Serious, Sorry about the harsh response, I was actually a bit trashed that night when I wrote that so it was probably a bit harsher than I had intended. However, it is kind of crappy accusing people of photoshopping just because his corals looked good. Especially when you can see a good one and a bad one in the same picture (same coral, but placed at different times).

There is no doubt you need enough nutrients in the water, but like I said, it seems to be a theme with T5 tanks, and I doubt highly that all of us T5 users are just starving our corals with super low nutrients. I for one have a large fuge, I use Zeovit, and I add zeo coral vitializer (coral food), plus I add Reef Chili about twice a week. I also dont have a bb, so there is no way my nutrients are SUPER SUPER low enough to make the corals lose color IMO......
 
No prob Horace I like to get drunk and berate people that accuse other people of things too!! The fuge thing i know doesnt address the nutrient thing, was just telling dvan his corals need to be fed for sure.
Is that zeovit super expensive? How long you been using it?

horace---how high are your lights raised?
 
I seriously doubt the T5's are going to put more intensity in a 75 or a 90 than someone using 400 watt halides which has been known to happen. Acros under those conditions seem to color up nicely. I still think it is a matter of something missing in the spectrum.

Has anyone tried moving a frag or colony from a T5 tank to a halide lit tank to see what happens? It is possible that the pastel look is more of a purely visible effect rather than the actual coloring of the coral. Perhaps the coral appear to be lighter because they are receiving light from all directions while the halides are coming mostly from one direction? Dunno.

My tank is just now cycling so it will be months before I can really establish things well enough to start playing with lamp combinations.
 
Serious snaps....from all I've heard the ATI bulbs are the same as the DD/GIESEMANN bulbs....just different name but same manufacturer. I already mentioned this in a previous post.

Also guys I think I am really starting to see improvement running my daylights on 41/2 hrs now. If you give me a month or even less I will be able to say with out a doubt.

Grim.....If you look at the spectrum of any 20k bulb...you will not see a lot of the green/yellow/orange/red spectrum either.
 
Grim.....Most people who run 400watts run 20k. My tank doesnt look close to 20k. Also I've seen tanks with 400w XM 20k w/ lumenarc reflectors and It didnt look as bright. I know this isnt scientific...but hey this is what I noticed. Could be that the lumenarcs where mounted too high..I dont know.
 
My lights are about 6" from the water.

Ive been running Zeovit for about 2 months. However, my color lightening problems have existed for about 8-9 months. I got the zeovit thinking it would improve the color. It hasnt. Zeovit will help more when you have high nutrients. My tank has always had low nutrients so I havent seen the huge difference that some can.


Grim to address what you are talking about. about 75% of my corals come from GQJeff's uber awesome 240g Zeovit tank that uses 4x400w XM 20k + 2x110VHO SA + 2x54w T5 B+. I see the colors go from amazing to much lighter in color over time (over about a month time frame). Its not a matter of the corals just looking different under differnt light (though they do to an extent). The biggest difference as I have pointed out is the greens lose thier green and fade to yellow. Oranges also fade to a pink color. In general colors fade to a lighter version of what they used to be.

Another thing that has occurred which bothers me even more than lightening of color, is the total loss of some colors. For example my pink bird's nest which used to have both a bright magenta pink color with green highlights, now has NO green at all and now the pink is no longer that bright magenta but looks like regular old pink. The corals have DEFINITELY lightened in color and/or lost colors.
 
ATI and D&D are no longer the same lamp. ATI (I heard) had a falling out with the manufacturer that built the lamps (Narva) and had to find another source to have their lamps produced. Their new aquablue is supposed to have a narrower color band which they claim will increase output and longevity, dunno.

Even a 20K halide running in a good reflector is going to have PAR that will be what a normally driven T5 will produce. A 400 watt XM 20K SE lamp produced more PAR than a XM 10K HQI which I would put against any normally driven IC T5 system and probably against a 4 lamp IC system.

I don't have any pics but I had a guy (Freddie40) add an ATI actinic to his tank and he says his greens and pinks are noticably better now. I will work on getting some comparison pics of the corals under 2 Actinic Plus and the Actinic Plus and Actinic 03 combo.
 
I've decided to go with MH for now until we figure out what is happening to our corals with T5HOs. Everything I add to my tank looses colors, even macro algae and I cannot afford to contnue with T5s not knowing what is going on.

I've ordered "Giesemann 230 Plus T5 Fixture" with 13000K HQI MH and 2 T5HOs and if it was really our T5 lights that was causing ligtening of colors then this change with lights will prove it.

It will arrive today around 4:00PM so my tank will have MH lights starting today and I'll post results a month or two from now.

Wish me luck.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7613092#post7613092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hskim
I've decided to go with MH for now until we figure out what is happening to our corals with T5HOs. Everything I add to my tank looses colors, even macro algae and I cannot afford to contnue with T5s not knowing what is going on.

I've ordered "Giesemann 230 Plus T5 Fixture" with 13000K HQI MH and 2 T5HOs and if it was really our T5 lights that was causing ligtening of colors then this change with lights will prove it.

It will arrive today around 4:00PM so my tank will have MH lights starting today and I'll post results a month or two from now.

Wish me luck.

If your macro wont grow that is a good sign that your nutrients are pretty darn low. I have the same issue in my tank....Once the macro starts to look translucent, its time to remove about 90% of it so it isnt decomposing in the tank.

My halides are arriving this afternoon as well (2x250w Phoenix in ROIII reflectors on EVC Ballasts). I will be utilizing 3 of my existing T5s for dusk/dawn and supplementation/tweaking color.
 
Grim - That link did not work. I tried www.seedsetc.com and they had the 3000k lamps so I'm guessing that's what you meant to type. I went ahead and ordered 2 of them. I'll post an update after I try them out for a bit, I'll probably post up some pics showing what the various color combinations look like also (my previous setup, vs. current, vs. future with the 3000k).

Since removing my AB bulbs I don't care for the extremely blue look of my tank, but the actinic effect is kind of neat. My tank also looked a lot brighter before.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7632580#post7632580 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
Grim - That link did not work. I tried www.seedsetc.com and they had the 3000k lamps so I'm guessing that's what you meant to type. I went ahead and ordered 2 of them.

3000k? Hopefully that is a typo. That would be one yellow-red bulb.
 
Back
Top