dascharisma
New member
.09 according to JJ's fancy phosphate meter.
Brad
My tank is crashing
- Thread starter dascharisma
- Start date
.09 according to JJ's fancy phosphate meter.
Brad
dascharisma
New member
I haven't changed my lighting scheme or the bulbs in 6 months. The tank is lit by two halides, but both sides of the tank are effected, so I assume that the halides aren't the problem. There are 3 VHOs that run the length of the tank, but they are all lit and seem to be functioning normally.
My parents watched the tank while I was gone. They know the investment my tank represents and took the responsibility very seriously. They came to my house 3 or 4 times before the trip just so they could get practice with the basics. They had a very specific list(ie, exact number of cubes of food, and teaspoons of kalk) of things to do and things to look for. Everything tested normal when I arrived back home.
Brad
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dascharisma
New member
Good call. I think it is time to remove the birdsnest. Unfortunately it is encrusted pretty darn well.
Brad
dascharisma
New member
I test my tds frequently. I never let it get above 2.
Brad
dascharisma
New member
I tested those at JJs and we came up with 0. I do run a 100mg ozone unit, but i took it and my old skimmer off the system. Both were taken off AFTER things started going downhill this weekend. My display was drained into my skimmer which was connected to the ozone unit. When the tank started looking very bad yesterday I decided to put a fragtank online that already had 100 gallons of saltwater at the right temp etc. In order to add the frag tank, I needed to take off the old skimmer. I figured that since I had the new skimmer running, that I needed the water change more than I needed an extra skimmer. I guess I should hook the ozone unit up to the new skimmer though. Unless of course the ozone unit were the cause of the trouble!:eek1:
Brad
leeweber85
New member
I hope you get to the bottom of this. I don't know anything about ozone, but maybe you have to ween off of it or something? If I were you I would be tempted to hook up the old skimmer and get the new one out of there since that seems to be where things started going down hill. I feel bad for you and hope you can straighten it out before it's too late.
dascharisma
New member
Thanks for your concern.
To tell you the truth I don't feel like the ozone generator ever did anything for my tank. I have adjusted its level in the past and never noticed any effects.
I have considered taking the new skimmer off-line, but I just figure that after 72 hours any thing in it causing problems would already be completely in the water and couldn't cause more harm by leaving it on. Also, the new skimmer seems to be skimming quite well, and hopefully it is taking out anything that the carbon doesn't.
Brad
rc1214b
New member
Okay first.. I would bet my tank that the skimmer didn't release any poison, I know some people don't clean their skimmers at all when new and have had no problems other than taking longer to break in. Even if you didn't use vinegar and just used water I'm sure it's fine. I keep thinking back to the torts...
As far as water parameters, po4 is a little high,Your mag is high and and the nitrate would explain the rise in calcium like you stated earlier. If ammonia and trite are 0 it sounds like your bacteria are doing their thing. If they showed something I might think something like a mass pollutant or die off.
If all equipment is running fine I can't think that uv would be irritaiting anything.
After reading your post about your new skimmer it sounds like you were ready to buy new coral so you must not have thought things were not good enough for new pieces. So all #'s other than trate were ok.
If you left very specific instructions it doesn't sound like anything major happened while you were gone, although when you said teaspoons of kalk where did they add it? it's been known to burn coral(maybe an alk swing burnt the tips) but if you didn't notice anything when you got back then I'm sure it was probably fine.
The only thing I can think of is that they are stressed due to nitrate. The changing of equipment and adding carbon during this time is probably what triggered the chain reaction. The torts might have been the first indicator that either something while you were gone changed or the trate just has been slowly rising and it stressed them out too much.
I've lost sps for no apparent reason and I'm sure it will happen again. I've learned though to get the piece that is sloughing tissue out and either cut a good part off or toss it. Leaving it in is not good for other pieces or the tank IMO. I would stick to water changes to get no3 down but try not to change carbon or water parameters much. The higher light penetration will stress them out more.
As far as water parameters, po4 is a little high,Your mag is high and and the nitrate would explain the rise in calcium like you stated earlier. If ammonia and trite are 0 it sounds like your bacteria are doing their thing. If they showed something I might think something like a mass pollutant or die off.
If all equipment is running fine I can't think that uv would be irritaiting anything.
After reading your post about your new skimmer it sounds like you were ready to buy new coral so you must not have thought things were not good enough for new pieces. So all #'s other than trate were ok.
If you left very specific instructions it doesn't sound like anything major happened while you were gone, although when you said teaspoons of kalk where did they add it? it's been known to burn coral(maybe an alk swing burnt the tips) but if you didn't notice anything when you got back then I'm sure it was probably fine.
The only thing I can think of is that they are stressed due to nitrate. The changing of equipment and adding carbon during this time is probably what triggered the chain reaction. The torts might have been the first indicator that either something while you were gone changed or the trate just has been slowly rising and it stressed them out too much.
I've lost sps for no apparent reason and I'm sure it will happen again. I've learned though to get the piece that is sloughing tissue out and either cut a good part off or toss it. Leaving it in is not good for other pieces or the tank IMO. I would stick to water changes to get no3 down but try not to change carbon or water parameters much. The higher light penetration will stress them out more.
dascharisma
New member
RC1214b I think you and I are on the same page. I agree that there would be no reason to suspect that anything was released from the skimmer other than the timing coincidence.
I agree that the fact that the cycle is still underway indicates no mass die-off or the like.
I don't see any indications of UV other than the polyps on a few corals show the pattern of polyp extension in the shade. The equipment seems to be in order.
Other than the mystery tort deaths I thought the tank was doing quite well. My growth had really taken off in the last months and I thought I would be fragging my better pieces soon. My coloration probably swung a bit darker than i would have liked in the last 6 months but for the most part things looked good.
I am pretty sure I thought of almost everything before my trip. My kalk is added via a brute with a dosing pump. I only add enough kalk and water each evening for the next 24 hours to prevent any problems from a dosing pump malfunction. My parents did the same, so the kalk would have had no chance for contact with the corals.
The only part of the puzzle that isn't what i would expect from nitrates is the absence of nuissance algae, and the fact that nearly every coral reacted at exactly the same time. That being said, I can't come up with a better explanation. I guess I should prefer the nitrate explanation since that is something I can control in the future.
I have removed all of the corals with any significant recession. At this point I can only really change 10% of the total 400 gallons per day. I plan to do exactly that each day over the next few days. I will be home all week, so I can spread the addition of the 10% water change throughout the day.
Thanks,
Brad
I agree that the fact that the cycle is still underway indicates no mass die-off or the like.
I don't see any indications of UV other than the polyps on a few corals show the pattern of polyp extension in the shade. The equipment seems to be in order.
Other than the mystery tort deaths I thought the tank was doing quite well. My growth had really taken off in the last months and I thought I would be fragging my better pieces soon. My coloration probably swung a bit darker than i would have liked in the last 6 months but for the most part things looked good.
I am pretty sure I thought of almost everything before my trip. My kalk is added via a brute with a dosing pump. I only add enough kalk and water each evening for the next 24 hours to prevent any problems from a dosing pump malfunction. My parents did the same, so the kalk would have had no chance for contact with the corals.
The only part of the puzzle that isn't what i would expect from nitrates is the absence of nuissance algae, and the fact that nearly every coral reacted at exactly the same time. That being said, I can't come up with a better explanation. I guess I should prefer the nitrate explanation since that is something I can control in the future.
I have removed all of the corals with any significant recession. At this point I can only really change 10% of the total 400 gallons per day. I plan to do exactly that each day over the next few days. I will be home all week, so I can spread the addition of the 10% water change throughout the day.
Thanks,
Brad
rc1214b
New member
Yeah for now I think go with the no3 unless something else pops up, the only thing about the algae is your po4 being low might have prevented it from taking off like it should have, I have to assume your using a phosreactor for this to have happened. Now watch it take off after we talk about it.
I think the smaller water changes often will help slowly bring things back in order. GOOD LUCK!!
I think the smaller water changes often will help slowly bring things back in order. GOOD LUCK!!
dascharisma
New member
Well, I give up. So far I have lost about 10 corals, and the 20 or so that are still living don't look like they will last long. JJ is going to pick up the few remaining this afternoon. I can't get over the coincidence of all the corals reacting the same morning and then dying very rapidly thereafter. Having seen sps tanks (Dhinch's) with high nitrates, I don't think that the nitrates alone could have caused this much destruction in this small of time window.
It is time for me to rethink my reefkeeping future.
Brad
It is time for me to rethink my reefkeeping future.
Brad
Bullet
New member
Nitrates don't make sense to me either. There has to be another reason. I have had high nitrates before and never had corals die. I think the reason is because they build up over a long time and the corals slowly adapt to them. With how fast it is happening I would start looking somewhere else and save what you can. It may be something as small as something on your hands....a new container...anything new?????
I hope you figure it out though and when you do please let us know because to have this much die off something has to get out of wack pretty quickly
I hope you figure it out though and when you do please let us know because to have this much die off something has to get out of wack pretty quickly
Coralfreak
Premium Member
I'd have to agree, I find it highly unlikely high NO3 caused this. From looking through all this, it sounds like something has contaminated your water or a parameter went way out of whack. What that was, I have no idea, but that much die off that quickly indicates something serious changed and changed fast.
The last time I went through something like this was several years ago. I was on vacation, and the pump supplying my chiller quit working, to make it more fun, we had turned the air in the house up, so the tank hit several 90+ degree spikes, killed pretty much everything, it generally takes something major like that to cause this to happen.
I've had little(within normal range) temp spikes/drops, pH spikes/drops etc, with no real problems at all. Your bulbs could be a potential problem. I believe you are using DE bulbs, are the shields OK, no cracks etc?? Anything that could have spilled into the water? Anything changed prior to the start of this? Salt mix, additives etc.
I just have to believe, as quickly as this seems to have happened, something major has to have started it.
Allen
The last time I went through something like this was several years ago. I was on vacation, and the pump supplying my chiller quit working, to make it more fun, we had turned the air in the house up, so the tank hit several 90+ degree spikes, killed pretty much everything, it generally takes something major like that to cause this to happen.
I've had little(within normal range) temp spikes/drops, pH spikes/drops etc, with no real problems at all. Your bulbs could be a potential problem. I believe you are using DE bulbs, are the shields OK, no cracks etc?? Anything that could have spilled into the water? Anything changed prior to the start of this? Salt mix, additives etc.
I just have to believe, as quickly as this seems to have happened, something major has to have started it.
Allen
Double-J
Premium Member
Well most of his SPS corals are over here now. We put them thru interceptor before going in my frag tank. they look very stressed out and probably even more now since the interceptor. He doesn't think any of them are going to make it and they are pretty beat up but... I think at least 50% will make it. Anyway I'm taking a chance by doing this but I would hate to be in the same situation with all the expensive corals he has just to watch die so I offered to do this for him. So keep your fingers crossed that I won't be starting a thread called "380gallon tank crashing" There is a good ending to all Brad's troubles thou, but I'll let him tell you guys the good news... Here is a pic of the frags in my frag tank, Keep in mind I have no camera skills so its just a crap pic the corals don't look quite as brown in person.
<img src="http://www.shallowreef.com/display_image.php?id=195">
<img src="http://www.shallowreef.com/display_image.php?id=195">
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