My zoanthids suck lately. Advice please?

In my experience any zoanthid with cyano or algae on it will be irritated and not open. In the pictures it looks like all of yours have some cyano on them. Try to brush them off a bit and solve your cyano/algae issues. Removing the sand will probably help with this a great deal. (See below.)

I agree that the sand is a problem. The package says it is polymer coated, which means that the grains have been covered with an artificial substance (like resin) to give it the black color. These substrates are usually used for freshwater though they often claim to be safe for saltwater. Not only does the coating often wear and rub off, but the sand that they started with is silica which is not what you want for a reef. Silica feeds things like diatoms. So even if it has pictures of saltwater fish and claims to be safe for saltwater, that doesn't mean it's good for a reef (fish only would be fine, but you'd still get algae). I would remove it bit by bit from both of your tanks and replace it with something more appropriate, like aragonite. You can also leave them bare bottom if you prefer. Good luck! :)

:thumbsup:

Before I used to believe in brushing the polyps, but not anymore!! I wouldn't brush the zoas for nothing nowadays. I almost lost a great colony of Zoanthus sp. once after brushing algae off with a very soft toothbrush with extra gentle strikes. Never again! It could do some internal/external damage/irritation and even open the way for an infection. Besides the use of brush won't remove all the algae anyway.
The best thing to fight against algae and cyano is really correct the water chemistry, mainly removing organics. Skimmer!!! Water changes in a regular maintenance schedule and good lights. They'll be aways there, but if the system is under control they shouldn't be a problem. The use of activated carbon is a choice and could help in many cases. I would avoid the use of activated carbon in a system with zoas, unless it really needs to be there to fix a problem. Best would be the ones with insignificant rates of phosphates, like Chemi-Pure or the Premium ROX 0.8 from BulkReefSupply.

The siphoning of cyanos can be done with an air line while doing partial water changes and many times it is so easy to export that way because the cyanos aren't really attached to the polyps, but they lay on them, covering, loosely. Different than many types of algae.

Talking about the substrate again...
Actually I would prefer to believe that silica substrate wouldn't offer significant amounts of silica to the water to the point for a diatom bloom. BUT, when the silica substrate is exposed to very low pH, in the presence of organisms releasing organic acids, the direct contact with silica sand would be dissolved slowly, yes. Again, as far as I know that is insignificant in many cases. There are many different types of silica sand from many different environments. Some would have more dissoluble silica than others. Some would have more "impurities" than others and that would help/retard to the amount of silica dissolved, besides the variables among different types of systems.
It is although very wise to avoid silica sand!!!!

In another hand, in this case, the chemicals used to coat the silica sand are junk!! Also, the presence of heavy metals are found in many other types of the dark substrates available. Even if there is no coating on them! Aragonite is much better, releases much less silica and looks good and clean too.

Not a flaming, just adding to it with MOE, my friend!! :thumbsup:
I kinda like this subject. :)

Grandis.
 
Ahh okay I see why the sand would be bad now. Okay I will slowly take the sand out of the tank. Thanks again for all the advice!! :) hopefully this situation gets resolved soon and my zoos are happy again :)

Heavy metals are present in sands and released slowly in salt water. Some nutrients could be released from dark substrates also, like phosphates and iron. In your case, besides the artificial coating, also the silica is actually the substrate, to be avoided, like Ostara posted! :thumbsup:

Best thing is to avoid those dark substrates IMO.

I wouldn't bother with the cyano in your tank unless it begins to cover the polyps/rocks and glasses. There is probably a little irritation from the cyanos now, but you need to take care of the chemistry and that will be hopefully be solved soon. Find a skimmer for the system if you don't have and maintaining a maintenance schedule with partial water changes, siphoning, exporting cyanos with an air tube would help a bit. Maintaining good alk and exporting organics. The use of activated carbon could help in extreme cases...

When your polyps begin to look better and opened try to target feed them good artificial coral foods in very small amounts once a week. Reef Roids, Fauna Marin... They'll be very tankfull (thankful)! LOL!!!

Good luck!
Grandis.
 
I would like very much to hear from other people in regards to their experiences with dark substrates (black sand) in long periods of time, please...

Grandis.
 
curious, clearly the lights are capable of growing great stuff, nice pics btw :)...but are the bulbs really old now? They lose intensity over time. The new pics look darker.

(even though I don't think it's the lights I just wanted to throw that in)

edit: oh so sorry should have read more, it's 4:30am. Anyways yeah just siphon that sand out a bit every change. I always stay away from darker sands, i'm sure there are many fine ones, I just havn't met a bad lighter one yet.

Also if no skimmer or refugium frequent water changes are a must for such a small tank at least in my experience. I change 15% a week usually, sometimes a little more. My tanks are all nano and all have no skimmer or refugium. When I don't change water things so south fast. Also I keep my temp closr to 80-82, I can't seem to kill zoas if I tried.
 
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Well crap. I really like the dark substrates. I dont like the look of lighter substrate at all actually..no offense to anyone who has it. I do weekly water changes of At least two gallons. I have done two water changes this week tho of 75% the first time( to move the tank to t room) and then another large water change bc I was having a hard time siphoning out the sand :/ Im not running a skimmer right now bc I was under the impression that water changes would be enough and a skimmer is not needed. This is what is frustrating me. The tank isn't brand new, it's been running very well and all the corals were thriving up until now.... I have changed nothing and out of the blue my zoas are angry. I really don't have much cyano. It's weird actually that the cyano is only growing on the zoas. I do have a bit of hair algae growing though so something is not right. The algae is not out of Control though. Not enought to make my zoas that angry. Again all the palys are open and happy. Ugh idk this is irritating. I want my tank pretty again. Also I am bumping up my temp a couple degrees to 79 to see if that helps a bit. The light fixture is 2 years old and I though they looked darker as well. I've heard that this fixture in particular has dimmed for people after a year... So thats why I was thinking it was the lighting in the beginning..
 
hummm...
Well, if more people already had that experience with the fixture you better change.

The skimmer part is mostly what I would do, but many people with small tanks don't bother having a skimmer and prefer to rely on water changes and other things.
All my tanks I've kept, even the 10gal. ones in the past, had a small skimmer. The skimmer helps to maintain the stability too.

Another good thing to do is to keep the stability of the salinity with an auto top-off system, if possible.

I keep my temp on the 78/79°F side. It is the best I could have to date.

If you really want a dark substrate you should search with people that had it for couple of years without major problems. Try to find out the brand they're using... Please keep in mind that even the natural dark substrates would have particles from volcanic origins and possibly would give you some nutrients/heavy metals' problems in the future.

Grandis.
 
I'd like to mention that not all my zoas are tightly closed. Only fire and ice colony and my goblins fire zoas. The others are open but they jut aren't happy looking. They are halfheartedly open.
 
Okay so things to do. I know we've been over them a few times but I just need to organize it in my head lol

1) remove sand and replace with aragonite sand
2) test for phosphates
3) upgrade lighting
4) feed artificial coral food when zoas start to open up more

The skimmer I'm gonna hold of on just bc I don't want a bunch of things hanging on the tank. I like it to be as low tech as possible.
 
Also here's a list of all other corals in the tank

Green candy cane
Duncan's
Green Birdsnest
Green montipora
Metallic green Gsp
Chalice
Yellow polyps

All of these Corals are doing great also.
 
Okay so things to do. I know we've been over them a few times but I just need to organize it in my head lol

1) remove sand and replace with aragonite sand
2) test for phosphates
3) upgrade lighting
4) feed artificial coral food when zoas start to open up more

The skimmer I'm gonna hold of on just bc I don't want a bunch of things hanging on the tank. I like it to be as low tech as possible.

Yes, if you can forget dark substrates and get aragonite sand would be good. Just a bit, not a DSB. You've had a bare bottom before. Perhaps you should keep BB for a while, after removing the dark substrate? The cleaner the better.

Yeah, forget the skimmer then. As I've said, it's just the way I do. Some other people wouldn't even bother. Stability is very important for zoas...

All tests are good to have. Alkalinity and salinity are among the most important to be tested IMO when keeping zoas.

The target feeding (dry coral foods) would be considered as a boost for them. When the basics are there the polyps should open colorful and happy. Feeding helps with their reproduction/growth rates IME. Please search threads about feeding the zoas in this forum for more info...

If you really know the light should be replaced then don't waste your time and begin searching for a new one. Compare prices and opinions before deciding.
I vote for T5s.
Search...

It would be so good if others could give their opinions too...

Grandis.
 
Also here's a list of all other corals in the tank

Green candy cane
Duncan's
Green Birdsnest
Green montipora
Metallic green Gsp
Chalice
Yellow polyps

All of these Corals are doing great also.

Those corals need good light.
If they're doing so good, I would try first remove the substrate and see what happens, as I've posted before.

All the things I'm posting are the ones I would do with my own tank to try to find the solution for the problem.

Grandis.
 
I really can't help but believe that the substrate is the cause of your partially closed zoas.
I've read again the messages and stopped on the pictures for a while.
All I can think is the substrate releasing chemicals in the water...
The cyanos on the polyps are there because of the water chemistry and possibly the light/water motion.

The light would be the second step, if the substrate removal doesn't work.

Anyone else?

Grandis.
 
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I have lots of zoas including the ones you mentioned. I recently had a crash when a bag a gummy bears melted into the tank (don't ask). It was a major carbon overdose and it used up all the oxygen. The fire and ice were the last to open back up. I lost all my fish, a few crabs and lots of small life, plus 2 sps corals. All the zoas made it. I have somewhere over 20 kinds or so

Here is what I do. My zoas grows very fast and I have never lost any, ever.

20 Gallon tank. Keep at .025 salinity. I just do 15-20% water change every week religiously. Because I do those changes I don't even test my water on a regular basis or dose anything. I use reef crystals salt, it has never failed me. I have a lot of live rock, no idea how many pounds, it's my avatar picture, you can just guess. I have fine sugar sand, it was dry sand, not live but was from a reef shop I trust....never knew the brand. I have a mediumish HOB low-tech filter with no media though every once in a while I add carbon. I have an aquaclear powerhead, can't see what number as it's covered in corralline now....it's not huge. I have a bubbler.

It's not a majorly high flow tank. No skimmer, refugium. I have an orange-marked goby who sifts the sand very well, it's not a DSB like said above, only 1-2 inches I prefer that. 1 flame angel. No other fish. Lots of crabs (emerald, porcelaine, sally lightfoot, hermits pom pom), no snails but stomatellas and doves that hitched and bred. 1 wedge sea hare. 1 royal urchin. I feed only frozen food for the fish, variety of everything. For the corals I feed phyto-feast, oyster-feater, and roti-feast, I do not target feed. I feed every day lightly. I turkey baste the rocks (and corals) on a regular basis or blow the power-head at them (much less often for that though). Temp 80-82. My lights, well they are strong, too strong actually. I have T5s, 24 inch with 6 bulbs. 3 blue, 1 white, 1 pink, 1 purple. Since they are so strong I just have one set on at a time and I alternate. I don't really have them timed, they are on when I am awake because it's next to my bed. Zoas have never minded. I have a few other corals but it's a zoa dominant tank. Don't know if any of that helps but it's what I do and they are growing too fast for me at the moment.....

If I were you i'd update the bulbs and get light sand with a shallow bed and a sand sifting animal (just because I never go without). I don't have experience with barebottom.....I don't like the look though.....but maybe I have just not met the right one. Since zoas don't need a lot of light, I mean not comapared to a lot of stuff....I would be more inclined to go with substrate as well.
 
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Thanks so much guys for taking all this time to help me figure this out! I really really appreciate it! Esp Grandis! :)

Yes those other corals do require good light so that's why I'm not sold on getting a new light. If they are extending polyps and looking fine then the light should be good for the zoas as well. I do however want more of a blue look to the tank. May e eventually I have set back up a t5 fixture..

Reeferkimberly thank you for telling me about your system. I did see your other thread about the melty gummy bears. Sorry to hear about your losses. :( your tank setup sounds similar to mine except I have a lot of flow. I do not like the look of bare bottom also. I too stopped tested my water bc I do routine 15% water changes every week so that shouldn't be a problem. I did test when algae started showing up and everything showed up like it normally does. Sounds like you have a good color combo on your tank to make the corals colors pop!

I think instead of siphoning the sand I will just take a couple scoops of sand out with a small cup each week. The water comes out a lot faster than the sand. I hardly get any sand out and the tank gets emptied lol.
 
Why not just drain the entire tank and use a fake credit card or plastic spatula to remove all the sand? It shouldn't take that long.

You will have some left and you can simply blast it into a corner and siphon the rest out.

Good luck.
 
Brittany -

After changing the sand on my 240 last week, here is what I would recommend:

Drain the water down slowly, so as not to disturb any dirt. Take out the rocks, swish them in a separate container of salt water to remove any debris. Use a shopvac and suck out the sand - this really works well. Add back (prewashed) new sand, add back rocks, add back water.
 
Thanks for the sand removing tips guys. I really don't wanna take the rocks out bc my hubby just aquascaped the tank perfectly but I guess I will have to :(

I wish I had a shop vac bc that sound perfect.. During my routine water change to I took out two buckets of water and siphoned out what sand I could and then just used a small cup to scoop sand out. I got about half the sand out I think. Couldnt reach the sand in the back bc of the rocks. I don't have sand to replace it with yet though so I don't wanna take it all out right away.

I wanna just throw this out to everyone following this thread..
Do you think the problem could be the calc and alk? I haven't tested but I can right after I post this. I have quite a few hard corals for a small tank and maybe they are depleting calc and alk making the zoas not happy? Also I got a new bucket of salt recently. And didn't roll it around to make sure the salt was mixed evenly. Could that be a factor?
 
Just tested calc alk and mag and got some weird results.

Test #1
Calcium-360
Alk-14+ (used the whole syringe and still didn't change color)
Mag-below 760

Test #2
Calcium-360
Alk-14+
Mag-840

Tested twice just in case. Looks like there was a difference in mag.

Why would make calc be so low and alk so high? Keep in mind I just did a water change of about four gallons about 6 hours ago.
 
If you had a water change of ~40% less than 24 hours ago, one or some of the testes could be expired.
Unless the situation was really, really critical before the water change.
You've got some coralline algae and SPS corals doing fine. The test is probably expired.

Grandis.
 
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