N and P imbalance

C

CyanoMagnet

New member
Want to add C but I have read from several prominent posters that it is dangerous to add C when N and P are not balanced?

My Nitrates are 20+ppm and phosphates are undetectable.

I have done alot of research and this area is a bit confusing to me. I would appreciate anyone clearing this up.
 
IMO, the issues that are a danger do not relate to N and P imbalances, but rather to driving nutrients, especially phosphate too low, depriving organisms of them, and in driving oxygen too low if bacteria grow too rapidly.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12763602#post12763602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
IMO, the issues that are a danger do not relate to N and P imbalances, but rather to driving nutrients, especially phosphate too low, depriving organisms of them, and in driving oxygen too low if bacteria grow too rapidly.
Click to expand...

Randy , thanks for taking time to answer.

Can this obstacle be overcome with a good skimmer for oxygen, and adding amino acids for nutrients? My plan was coralife liquid gold plus, which has trace elements, amino acids and complex nutrients according to the label.

Right now I can't detect phosphates , but I do detect 20-50 nitrates.

I also have a DSB, which is apparently another concern when dosing with vodka?
 
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The nutrient issue I think is often pegged as phosphate going too low, as with excessive GFO, but I'm not sure if that has been established or not. I personally probably wouldn't use bacterial growth to reduce 50 ppm nitrate if you have no phosphate since you may drive it too low. Maybe that is what you meant by imbalanced?

Do you use something to drop phosphate?

Skimmers help a lot, but a big bacterial bloom, especially at night, can drop O2 quite a bit. Dose in the early AM and not before an impending storm that might cause a power outage. :D
 
"The nutrient issue I think is often pegged as phosphate going too low, as with excessive GFO, but I'm not sure if that has been established or not. I personally probably wouldn't use bacterial growth to reduce 50 ppm nitrate if you have no phosphate since you may drive it too low. Maybe that is what you meant by imbalanced?

Do you use something to drop phosphate?

Skimmers help a lot, but a big bacterial bloom, especially at night, can drop O2 quite a bit. Dose in the early AM and not before an impending storm that might cause a power outage. "

Yes thats exactly what I meant with the imbalance. I put a bag of phosban in the sump a while back , but have since taken it out. Phosphates have remained low.

ATM everything in the tank looks good, my nitrates have deffinetly took a dive since I overdosed with sugar(tablespoon) sunday early morning.

They are 15-25 down from 50+. I am waiting out the dip till adding any more carbon.

The reason I am very interested in this form of nitrate control is I desperately want to get rid of my DSB so that I can have more view space, more water flow without a sand storm and less ugly.

My skimmer broke down a few months ago, and it allowed my nitrates to climb to the 50s. I thought it would be a good opportunity to test this carbon dosing method out.

My plan is to go with a hang on refugium (10 gallons) with macro algae/DSB (which I am contemplating replacing with a 5 gallon RDSB), strong (wet)skimming, and carbon dosing on a long term basis, using a strong waterflow (which I have a hard time employing with a DSB) and supplementing amino acids, vitamins , trace elements and complex nutrients.

I am hoping to do minimal monthly water changes (hope is to get my wet skimming will nullify any need to do this). If detrius builds up in the bb, then it should be easy to siphon out.

Im hoping that I won't have to perform any water changes since I am aggressively wet skimming.

Do you see any flaws with this plan in general?

Again , a big thanks. I have read many of your articles, posts. They have deffinetaly influenced the direction I am taking with this tank.

PS, It has been quite stormy here in brooklyn this past week:lol:
 
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Yes thats exactly what I meant with the imbalance. I put a bag of phosban in the sump a while back , but have since taken it out. Phosphates have remained low.

OK, that caused the imbalance. I suspect that imbalance will simply make it harder to get nitrate to drop effectively, rather than be a real danger. But it depends a bit on how much organic material you add.

Im hoping that I won't have to perform any water changes since I am aggressively wet skimming.

Do you see any flaws with this plan in general?

How much water are to removing? Wet skimming is a good way to eprform water changes, if the volume removed is adequate. I'd like to see 1% of the system volume changed daily that way.
 
I would say I am skimming about 1/5th gallon a day, net gallons for system is 75. Will also dose with supplemental nutrients to counteract the depleted phosphate. I have actualy been doing this since monday. The nitrates are DEFFINETALY down about 10-20ppm since sunday. Infact nitrates were at 50+ as of last night (no change since sunday dosage). Today less than 25ppm.


EDIT. A clarification on the skimming. I am skimming alot more right now, but my goal , when everything settles down is to skim 1/5th/ 1/3rd gallon a day.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12765425#post12765425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyanoMagnet
Will also dose with supplemental nutrients to counteract the depleted phosphate.
Click to expand...

Unless you supplement the actual limiting factor, in marketing lingo you are just "nourishing" the bacs. If po4 is very low, you will limit nitrate reduction. In order to counter this you would need to add phosphates.

That said, trace elements and amino's are very important for bacteria populations and it is good to use, but not for the reason of imbalanced n : p.

Depending on your test kit, it's likely you do in fact have plenty of phosphates... but not registering on the kit.

That raises the question of what the ideal c : n : p ratio is, and we don't really know. Nor do we, as hobbyists, have the tests to accurately measure.

JMO.
 
GB hi, thanks for chipping in. I use a salifert phosphate test kit, and it is unreliable as most. That said, I have been using phosphate removers for a long time, as well as keeping alot of macro algae..

The last thing I want to do is add phosphates to my tank... but has anyone done this?
 
Yes, some people have done it... but I wouldn't suggest it for your situation. GFO or not, your imbalance is likely not all that imbalanced. I wouldn't worry about it ;)
 
Ok, thanks again.

My nitrates have been stuck at 18 or so for 3 days. I am going to do 40-50% water change, may not do much thoe.
 
Question, are you actually having problems with your tank, other than a test kit telling you that your nitrates are too high? If the tank is fine, animals doing well, no major nuisance algae problems, I wouldn't sweat over 18ppm of Nitrate ;)
 
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