name some
- Thread starter jadeguppy
- Start date
Kolognekoral
New member
There are many non-photosynthetic octocorals, such as the Dendronepthya, Scleronepthya and their relatives, which to most aquarists look like colourful soft corals. Indeed, they are related to the classic aquarium soft corals, but differ in harbouring no zooxanthellae. They much capture their nourishment. There are, as you noted, some members of the Scleractinian corals (stony corals), such as the Tubastrea, as well as the black corals (Antipatharia). Another group is found under the fire corals, Hydrozoa, of which quite a few are zooxanthellate (Millipora), while others, which fortunately do not sting strongly are azooxanthellate (Stylaster, Distichopora).
Yeah, there are a lot! Most require rather exact conditions to survive in the aquarium, which is why they are not commonly seen in private tanks or shops. And the reason to base a forum on their husbandry. We are still in the experimental stages.
Yeah, there are a lot! Most require rather exact conditions to survive in the aquarium, which is why they are not commonly seen in private tanks or shops. And the reason to base a forum on their husbandry. We are still in the experimental stages.
Whalehead9
New member
DOn't forget about the coveted Dendrophyllia, and RHIZOTROCHUS. larger polyps the regular sun corals and the Rhizo comes in different colors.
mushroom head
New member
Also some inverts for a non-photosynthetic tank would be...
coco worms
feather dusters
christmas tree worms
cluster duster worms
feather stars
sea pens
yellow filterfeeding cucumber
sea apple
tunicates
sponges
tube anemones
flamescallope
coco worms
feather dusters
christmas tree worms
cluster duster worms
feather stars
sea pens
yellow filterfeeding cucumber
sea apple
tunicates
sponges
tube anemones
flamescallope
charles matthews
New member
Charles Matthews here.
I am certainly proud of all of you and the work you have done over the years in getting us to the point where we can have a NP forum. Way to go, guys!
Chuck Stottlemire has claimed the first prize- successful maintenance of Dendronephthya and related species for one year- and I suggest that we grant him the title of "Dark Lord" Stottlemire. It is a remarkable achievement. He is an outstanding aquarist.
Looking to the future, here are some thoughts:
1) As per a recent conversation with Chuck, he has pointed out that although we are able to keep and grow Dendronephthya and related species now, until they can be brought to regular reproductive patterns, we must consider their care still suboptimal. At least one species of Dendronephthya is reported to spawn nightly- !- the reasons why they have not spawned in captivity remain obscure. Perhaps a lower dissolved nutrient environment, while maintaining plenty of encapsulated "food", will do the trick. As I recall, some SPS corals have been reported to increase growth rates with higher nutrients, but have reduced reproduction. In any event, the next big goal for Dendronephthya is successful regular spawning. Which one of you will get that glory?
2) Optimal conditions for Dendronephthya aquaculture by cloning need to be determined. This is a very reachable early goal. Both Chuck and I are fragging and experimenting with growout arrangements. This will be an exciting area to explore.
3) Aiptasia are a problem that has been solved with a copperband. However, copperbands eat tunicates- a real tragedy. We might expect exquisite tunicate growths in these tanks (Chuck gets these in his sump), perhaps by using Berghia. I have a rubble substrate in my main tank, with plenty of hidden Aiptasia here; Berghia might work. There will be other "pest" issues to identify in the future as we continue to feed heavily.
4) I'd suggest a "piggyback reef" approach, as our colleage Daniel Knop has written about recently in Coral magazine. If you have a standard reef setup, you might try plumbing in a small aquarium on a loop. No light, no heater, possibly no substrate, just a slow recirculation to the main reef system, a separate prop type pump for the tank, and you can experiment with these types of systems. How small can we go- 20 gallons? By the way, a syringe pump will handle the small amounts needed for such tiny setups nicely. Optimizing these piggyback systems will be an exciting area to explore.
5) Do we have to "feed a lot and clean a lot"? All of this is tiring and intellectualy unsatisfying. Long term, we need to find the physical conditions that would naturally support the primary production and entire captive food chain culminating in the maintenance of these more complex NP organisms. Going off skimmer, and finding creative ways to increase primary production, may fundamentally change the way we approach reef tanks of all kinds in the future, anad make clear the necesssary conditions for these kinds of life. My idea for this is the "algal film reactor" described in the previous thread. Basically, 3 cubic feed of beads (as for a bead filter) has 1000 square feet of surface area. Properly illuminated and turned over, this would liberate a lot of phytoplankton; the system could be fertilized to the desired soluble nutrient level, perhaps with inorganic plant nutrients (as the plant tank people do). You may remember Adey writing about the turf algal scrubbers (which only contain a few feet of turf and were ineffective) that eventually one reaches the low nutrient point where you scrape the screen, dry it out, and crumble it back into the tank as feed. Well, why not just start from that nutrient point- and use the more effective algal/bacerial film? There is much to say about this, and I hope to have more to report on the "recycling to primary production" idea in the future. I have had one contact on this already, with the suggestion that he was going to illuminate beads with 5000 watts submerged in the bead bed. But why not just put a 55 gallon outside in direct sunlight, and pipe it back to your reef? The race for a recycling system is on- gentleman, start your engines.
I am certainly proud of all of you and the work you have done over the years in getting us to the point where we can have a NP forum. Way to go, guys!
Chuck Stottlemire has claimed the first prize- successful maintenance of Dendronephthya and related species for one year- and I suggest that we grant him the title of "Dark Lord" Stottlemire. It is a remarkable achievement. He is an outstanding aquarist.
Looking to the future, here are some thoughts:
1) As per a recent conversation with Chuck, he has pointed out that although we are able to keep and grow Dendronephthya and related species now, until they can be brought to regular reproductive patterns, we must consider their care still suboptimal. At least one species of Dendronephthya is reported to spawn nightly- !- the reasons why they have not spawned in captivity remain obscure. Perhaps a lower dissolved nutrient environment, while maintaining plenty of encapsulated "food", will do the trick. As I recall, some SPS corals have been reported to increase growth rates with higher nutrients, but have reduced reproduction. In any event, the next big goal for Dendronephthya is successful regular spawning. Which one of you will get that glory?
2) Optimal conditions for Dendronephthya aquaculture by cloning need to be determined. This is a very reachable early goal. Both Chuck and I are fragging and experimenting with growout arrangements. This will be an exciting area to explore.
3) Aiptasia are a problem that has been solved with a copperband. However, copperbands eat tunicates- a real tragedy. We might expect exquisite tunicate growths in these tanks (Chuck gets these in his sump), perhaps by using Berghia. I have a rubble substrate in my main tank, with plenty of hidden Aiptasia here; Berghia might work. There will be other "pest" issues to identify in the future as we continue to feed heavily.
4) I'd suggest a "piggyback reef" approach, as our colleage Daniel Knop has written about recently in Coral magazine. If you have a standard reef setup, you might try plumbing in a small aquarium on a loop. No light, no heater, possibly no substrate, just a slow recirculation to the main reef system, a separate prop type pump for the tank, and you can experiment with these types of systems. How small can we go- 20 gallons? By the way, a syringe pump will handle the small amounts needed for such tiny setups nicely. Optimizing these piggyback systems will be an exciting area to explore.
5) Do we have to "feed a lot and clean a lot"? All of this is tiring and intellectualy unsatisfying. Long term, we need to find the physical conditions that would naturally support the primary production and entire captive food chain culminating in the maintenance of these more complex NP organisms. Going off skimmer, and finding creative ways to increase primary production, may fundamentally change the way we approach reef tanks of all kinds in the future, anad make clear the necesssary conditions for these kinds of life. My idea for this is the "algal film reactor" described in the previous thread. Basically, 3 cubic feed of beads (as for a bead filter) has 1000 square feet of surface area. Properly illuminated and turned over, this would liberate a lot of phytoplankton; the system could be fertilized to the desired soluble nutrient level, perhaps with inorganic plant nutrients (as the plant tank people do). You may remember Adey writing about the turf algal scrubbers (which only contain a few feet of turf and were ineffective) that eventually one reaches the low nutrient point where you scrape the screen, dry it out, and crumble it back into the tank as feed. Well, why not just start from that nutrient point- and use the more effective algal/bacerial film? There is much to say about this, and I hope to have more to report on the "recycling to primary production" idea in the future. I have had one contact on this already, with the suggestion that he was going to illuminate beads with 5000 watts submerged in the bead bed. But why not just put a 55 gallon outside in direct sunlight, and pipe it back to your reef? The race for a recycling system is on- gentleman, start your engines.
aninjaatemyshoe
New member
One should not forget the myriad of sponges that may be maintained in similar ways as we are attempting with the non-photo corals.
I think one of the most exciting things about the method Chuck innovated is the prospect of seeing all kinds of new things thrive that would never last in your typical reef tank. Using a continuous infusion of Shellfish Diet and other foods, one might expect all kinds of new things to pop up as hitchhikers from live rock. The black barrel sponge that is dominating Chuck's tank was a hitchhiker originally. Perhaps, as more people start this method with new live rock, we may see other cool sponges, tunicates, sea pens, and who knows what else. Of course, on the flip side, I would also expect all kinds of new pests popping up as well.
I think one of the most exciting things about the method Chuck innovated is the prospect of seeing all kinds of new things thrive that would never last in your typical reef tank. Using a continuous infusion of Shellfish Diet and other foods, one might expect all kinds of new things to pop up as hitchhikers from live rock. The black barrel sponge that is dominating Chuck's tank was a hitchhiker originally. Perhaps, as more people start this method with new live rock, we may see other cool sponges, tunicates, sea pens, and who knows what else. Of course, on the flip side, I would also expect all kinds of new pests popping up as well.
MikeCentore
New member
woo! new form!
AC11337
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11983797#post11983797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
Is this whole forum new within the past 5 minutes?? O magic forum creator please create a forum dedicated to sharks and rays(elasmobranchs) while in the forum-creating mood.
Yeah, I only know of suns and gorgonians.
I 2nd shark & ray
Stottlemire
New member
Congrtats on the new forum everyone!!!!
Chuck
Chuck
edandsandy
Active member
This is going to be a great new forum!
Chad Vossen
New member
i wonder how bad hydroids will be with so much food in the tanks. i have them bad enough in my sps tank.
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