Natural style Complete biological systems

[Nickme23]

I'm trying to research and set up as close to a natural system as I can.... I think that a good aproach will be to have a refugium that is near the water volume of the display tank (75 gal display, ~60 gal refugium)

Has anybody tried this or know of a website to refer me to? I'd really like to have a system that can recycle my water without skimming so that I can have a population of plankton living in the water column.

 

[MCsaxmaster]

Not needing a skimmer for nutrient export and having a significant plankton population are two different things. Unfortunately, even in very large, well-designed aquaria it is next to impossible to get a realistic planktonic community going. Now, it is certainly possible to have demersal zooplankton and creatures like that, but a truly pelagic system (without constant flow-through of reef water) is difficult at best. There are just too many things working against it in the small confines of an aquarium.

cj

 

[Nickme23]

even with a large amount of macro algae growing in the system? or possibly a phyto reactor?

 

[papagimp]

large amounts of macro would probably increase some pod populations but thats about it for plankton, a phyto reactor would allow you to culture phytoplankton for the system, which is great, but again, this isn't the same as having a thriving self sustaining population of various plankton in the tank. Which, btw, you do have in any marine system, just not in the same type of numbers you get in nature. And replicating natures concentraions would be next to impossible. As for recycling the water, doubtful plan at best. Better to get a skimmer and run a refugium than add supplements as needed. At least until the reseach and technology can catch up to our needs.

 

[Fredfish]

Having a big refugium will help system stability a lot and will act as a great filter for your main system. I have been running a 40g tank with a 40g refugium for 4 years now. The system is skimmerless AND gets virually no water changes (maybe two a year).

Now, I havn't pushed the system much to see what the refugium/filter can handle. I have 4 seahorses and 1 bangai. I have had a chilli coral and a few discosoma shrooms in the tank for most of the 4 years and recently added two small gorgonians.

In the early stages I had to dose nitrates regularly and even dosed phosphate a couple of times to keep the macro from crashing. It now seems pretty stable. Nitrates ran between undetectable and 5ppm and phosphates between undetectable and .2ppm back when I measured.

My refugium and tank produce enough zooplankton that I have had a seahorse develop and grow from fry to adulthood without my help. To this day he feeds on nothing but the amphipods and copepods in the system.

I do not think that my system has more diversity than other tanks out there, but it does seem to have a higher density of those creatures that are in the system.

As for recycling the water, doubtful plan at best.

It has been written many times and I will repeat... There's more than one way to fillet a fish and they can all work equally well... if you have an open mind.

There have been some very good discussions here on skimmerless tanks. Do a search and do some reading there.

There is also a very good thread on skimmerless tanks in Eric Bornemans forum over at Marine Depot.

If you have any more questions, ask away and I will answer as best as I can.

Fred

 

[Fredfish]

One more thing. Skimmerless systems that rely on macro algae as the main filter/export take a long time to establish. It took about two years for the macros in my system to really take off and stabalize.

If you have patience though, it will be a rewarding journey.

Fred

 

[papagimp]

How well did dosing phosphates work out for ya? Just curious as I've had to do that with planted freshwater tanks but never in a marine system.

 

[rodjer_ramjet]

Fredfish: Have you ever used an algal turf scrubber? are they quicker to start than said macro algae?

 

[Fredfish]

Re: dosing phosphate

It worked out fine. I dosed phosphate several times after a dose of nitrate did not perk up the macro. The response from the macro algae was immediate each time.

If you have good enough algae growth, nitrates and phosphates just arn't an issue. They are absorbed by the macro algae as fast as they are produced.

Re: ATS

I briefly tried and ATS, but had to tear it down after only 3 months because of a move. I never set it back up.

If your objective is purely nutrient export, an ATS will be much more efficient (about 10x the absorbtion rate). If I remember correctly, a scrubber will take 8 months to a year to properly establish the right species.

I should be more careful with my wording. I am really refering to overall system stability and I don't think it goes much quicker regardless of how your tank is set up. I think many aquarists never get there because they are too impatient and keep fiddling and changing.

I chose to use macro algaes in my refugium because they offer both nutrient export and a substrait for zooplankton like amphipods and copepods.

Fred