natureef denitrator question

[ninjamini]

A natureef denitrator seems very interesting. Let me see if I understand it correctly.

There is a tank of tank water with basically egg crate to hold a bacteria culture an a small powerhead to move water around within.

The bacteria culture is added. It is fed nitragon. It consumes nitrates and phosphates by breaking them apart exporting nitrogen consuming oxygen. This leaves the water basically devoid of nitrates, phosphates and oxygen.

Then once a day the water is flushed through this tank of water exchanging the O2 deprived with new water full of nitrates, phosphates and oxygen.

With nothing to remove just a weekly cleaning of the pump to keep it clear of the culture.

What's the downside to this system? Cost?

 

[DRThompson]

Cost and space are the downsides to a natureef denitrator. The denitrator chamber takes up a lot of real estate under the tank. Start up costs are huge compared to vodka/vinegar or even biopellets. I'd say it is the most expensive way to remove nitrates.

I'd say cost and space are the biggest reasons why we don't have extra stuff in our fish tanks

The reactor can get a little fussy at times. I have to clean the pump every 4-6 months. Mostly, I leave it alone and it does its job I have to say honestly it does a good job of removing nitrates, however, it doesn't remove all the phosphates. I still run GFO on occasion when I see my phosphates start to go up. (small amount and not continuously)

Here's my build thread for more info
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2098528

I'd be happy to help you start one, LMK

 

[ninjamini]

How big does it need to be? Can't I make one or repurpose something? I wonder if a tank from a 8 or 12 gallon eclipse system would work?

 

[DRThompson]

Here's a listing of their denitrators with sizing. You can make/repurpose any container that is approx the same size.

 

[ninjamini]

So it looks by that chart that it's not as much the size of the tank of water buy the surface area that the goo can live on.

I'm wondering why it's so expensive to set up.

Tank $100
Small pump $30
Small powerhead $20
Egg crate $10-20
Bacteria culture $0
Nitration $30
$200 ok I guess it adds up compared to like cheato $5.

 

[DRThompson]

If you're making your own you'll need a doser for the nitragone.....BRS dosers run about $80.(double that if you want to dose phosphagone also) The Natureef system comes with a doser, kind of a modded sprinkler controller. I'm told you can pick up used units pretty cheap (craigs list, ebay, RC)

I added extra eggcrate to my reactor for additional surface area for the "goo" . The goo is VERY viscous. Ceramic media is too small, eggcrate seems to work best.

 

[ninjamini]

If you're making your own you'll need a doser for the nitragone.....BRS dosers run about $80.(double that if you want to dose phosphagone also) The Natureef system comes with a doser, kind of a modded sprinkler controller. I'm told you can pick up used units pretty cheap (craigs list, ebay, RC)

I added extra eggcrate to my reactor for additional surface area for the "goo" . The goo is VERY viscous. Ceramic media is too small, eggcrate seems to work best.

Would I need that if I rung gfo? Can't just dump it in? Or use an aqua lifter? It's starting to look expensive.....plus it looks like I need a bigger tank to store all thus new equipment.....I can hear a "no" from the other room.

 

[Fishman7]

the "nitragone" is nothing but methanol its added to make the chamber go anaerobic getting the system going and tuned is the hardest part once going you set the timer ( rain bird) to dose as needed
down side to the system if the methanol is dosed and released into the tank prior to being consumed BOOM your tank can go anaerobic and crash
you may wonder how i know : i ran Spectacular sea systems for a few years we at the time were Adolfs Naturereefs biggest competitors
parts needed
1. tank with media
2. circulation pump
3. peristaltic dosing pump
4. timer to dose w/
5 pump in sump to fill and overflow tank
6 methanol

 

[marke]

Some of my favorite tanks ran the nature reef. Not sure if these tanks were outstanding due to this system? Question I have is what's the difference between this and just vinager or vodka dosing? The only difference I see is in one you grow the beneficial bacteria in a chamber. And the vinager grows them in your entire system? I tried once to get the scientist on the chemistry forum to explain but never got a good answer as they were unfamiliar with nature reef?

 

[DRThompson]

very happy with my natureef denitrator. I would love to make my own solution but dont really know what's in it. Obviously it has some methanol but what percentage? Not sure what else it has.

Steve, I told you this is probably the most expensive way to remove nitrates On that note, i have a 200gal reef system with 25 fish (4 are tangs) and I feed 4 cubes of frozen food 3 times a day plus a sheet of nori. My nitrates hold between 2.5-5mg/l. For me, it is worth it

 

[ninjamini]

Drt, and you defiantly do not have a nitrate issue! Your tank is awesome.

 

[DRThompson]

Steve, just wondering what you decided to do.......?

biopellets? more water changes? did you start a denitrator?

I've recently decreased my nitragone dosage and started using Calcium ascorbate (buffered vitamin C) as a replacement carbon source to feed the chamber. I've been happy with the results and might be switching over to either my own methanol solution or a calcium ascorbate solution. This would bring the maintenance costs down considerably (retail price on a gal of nitraone is approx $40)

 

[Breadman03]

very happy with my natureef denitrator. I would love to make my own solution but dont really know what's in it. Obviously it has some methanol but what percentage? Not sure what else it has.

Steve, I told you this is probably the most expensive way to remove nitrates On that note, i have a 200gal reef system with 25 fish (4 are tangs) and I feed 4 cubes of frozen food 3 times a day plus a sheet of nori. My nitrates hold between 2.5-5mg/l. For me, it is worth it

Did I just read that right that you feed a total of 12 cubes of frozen and a sheet of nori per day? Wow!

 

[DRThompson]

Did I just read that right that you feed a total of 12 cubes of frozen and a sheet of nori per day? Wow!

LOL, Have been trying to cut back. I now feed 4 cubes twice a day plus a mid-day feed of pellets(sometimes I skip the mid-day feed). One of the cubes is always cyclopeeze. On the nori, I use 1/3 of a 10"x10" sheet daily; I cut it into thin strips and use a clip. It's gone in 5 min. I get the nori from the oriental market store.

A couple of times a week I will soak the food in garlic or vitamins.

My list of fish:
Purple tang (medium)
Naso tang - med
foxface lo - med
blue hippo - med
5x lyre tail anthias
5x blue chromis - large
2x pajama cardinals - large
2x flame hawk -mated
2x percula clown -mated
mandarin male - med
lawnmower blenny - large
diamond goby - small
6-line wrasse - med
hovens melanaris wrasse - large
lemmonpeel angel
neon goby
copperband butterfly - med
That's 28 fish :eek1:

 

[mrx66699]

That's 28 fish :eek1:

LOL childsplay that is :strooper:

 

[Breadman03]

That's 28 fish :eek1:

I'm only at 4 in my 75, but plan on something in the 400 gallon range after our house is paid off. I'm getting the tank and my wife is getting a new hutch/China cabinet, and probably some pretty stuff as well. Hence my interest in a denitrator thread.

I don't think there's anything wrong with heavy feeding. In fact, I think that heavy feeding is great for a tank, but we need to have a nutrient export system that is up to the task.

 

[DRThompson]

I'm only at 4 in my 75, but plan on something in the 400 gallon range after our house is paid off. I'm getting the tank and my wife is getting a new hutch/China cabinet, and probably some pretty stuff as well. Hence my interest in a denitrator thread.

I don't think there's anything wrong with heavy feeding. In fact, I think that heavy feeding is great for a tank, but we need to have a nutrient export system that is up to the task.

I'm very happy with my denitrator; I'm not happy with how much the Nitragone and PHosphagone cost. I'm currently looking at alternative dosing products for my denitrator (straight methanol, calcium citrate, or calcium ascorbate-vitamin C)

PM me - I'd be happy to share info with you and answer any questions about my denitrator setup. I've been running it for over 2 years now.

 

[chasingfisher]

I'm very happy with my denitrator; I'm not happy with how much the Nitragone and PHosphagone cost. I'm currently looking at alternative dosing products for my denitrator (straight methanol, calcium citrate, or calcium ascorbate-vitamin C)

PM me - I'd be happy to share info with you and answer any questions about my denitrator setup. I've been running it for over 2 years now.

Hey Dave,

Im new to the forum but tried to send you a message about your experience with natureef. Can you share any info on starting a new tank with this denitrator? Any pics/learnings/info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[mrx66699]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2381987

 

[chasingfisher]

Thanks MRX really appreciate it. is the natureef expensive? I would probably want to go with the actual product...let me know your thoughts. Love the profile pic btw.