Need Advice for new fish

[Ytsejam02]

Hi all,

So I just bought my first fish for a tank that's been running for about 8 weeks now. Had my 10g QT setup... simple filter with just a polisher, 50W heater, and some PVC pipe for hiding places.

Drip acclimated my pair of clowns. Put them in, everyone seemed fine. Woke up this morning, checked on them. Noted that one seemed to be acting normal, and the other was in a PVC pipe kinda picking at the top of the inside of the pipe.

Checked on them an hour later, both dead. No idea why. The cheap float thermometer was registering about 81 degrees, which is definitely high, since I only set the 50W heater to 79. Not sure how much I can trust the cheap float thermometer, and really don't want to spend a lot on a QT tank.

Anyone have any ideas where I went wrong???

Kinda depressed at the moment. :-(

Thx.

 

[A.Astore]

What was your salinity? And do you know what the salinity of the water they came in was? Another question is how long did you drip acclimate for? The water they come in has a drastic raise in ammonia in a short amount of time once the bag is opened (granted I don't know how long they were in the bag for either). I doubt the temp had anything to do with it because it would have gone up slowly, keep in mind heat is trapped when the lid is on so it is not unusual to have the water end up higher than the temp set (add in lights then etc and it goes up from there). My QT is about 80-82 because my display runs that steadily. I allow the QT to be the same temp so there is no major shock when going from QT to DT (just my approach).

That is a really short amount of time to have a major ammonia spike but did you test the ammonia this morning by chance? If you hadn't fed them I just don't see the water going south that quickly.

 

[RayAllen3422]

What was your salinity? And do you know what the salinity of the water they came in was? Another question is how long did you drip acclimate for? The water they come in has a drastic raise in ammonia in a short amount of time once the bag is opened (granted I don't know how long they were in the bag for either). I doubt the temp had anything to do with it because it would have gone up slowly, keep in mind heat is trapped when the lid is on so it is not unusual to have the water end up higher than the temp set (add in lights then etc and it goes up from there). My QT is about 80-82 because my display runs that steadily. I allow the QT to be the same temp so there is no major shock when going from QT to DT (just my approach).

That is a really short amount of time to have a major ammonia spike but did you test the ammonia this morning by chance? If you hadn't fed them I just don't see the water going south that quickly.

+1 - The way I understand it is that is the salinity was a significant increase it can kill them. Always checks the salinity. People recommend calling the LFS before hand and matching their salinity then slowly bringing it up to your DT's salinity during the quarantine period.

 

[RayAllen3422]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1166124

Here is a good thread regarding acclimation. It is in the stickies above.

 

[Ytsejam02]

I did a drip acclimation for 1 hour. Effectively doubled the quantity of water in the bag.

The water was tank water. I had tested it prior to putting it in the QT.

I put in 20 drops (based on 10.5gallons of water) of the copper dosage prior to putting them in the water. It's possible the tank had closer to 9 gallons... could that have done it?

Water Quality:
Salinity - 1.026-1.027
Ammonio - 0ppm
phosphates - < .25ppm (ie - not zero, but not the lowest level either)
nitrates - 5ppm
nitrite - 0ppm

I'm going to go to the LFS with some of the QT water, and talk to them as well.

 

[CStrickland]

Sorry for your loss
Copper is strong medicine, you need to keep a close eye on the level in the water by testing often. Probs a good idea to let the fish settle in for a while before you start dosing too. A lot of people have replaced copper with other methods, or only treat as needed instead of just in case, since it can be hard on the fish.

 

[Ytsejam02]

Sorry for your loss
Copper is strong medicine, you need to keep a close eye on the level in the water by testing often. Probs a good idea to let the fish settle in for a while before you start dosing too. A lot of people have replaced copper with other methods, or only treat as needed instead of just in case, since it can be hard on the fish.

Seriously? That really sux, I wasn't aware of that. I feel like I should've known that. :-(

 

[CStrickland]

Live and learn. Everybody screws up stuff like that in the beginning

 

[Ytsejam02]

For what it's worth, I used Cupramine. My underestanding is that it's supposed to be "gentle".

 

[Dkuhlmann]

It's best not to use copper unless you have a reason to. Best practices are to first get the fish acclimated then observe it for a few weeks, if all is ok and it's eating well then you can run a course of Prazipro which will kill most all internal worms as well as flukes which live under the skin and in the gills. Prazipro is reef safe as well.

Like CStrictland said copper is hard on fish even Cupramine and there are many better practices to get rid of ich without medications of any kind. Read this thread its a book of sorts about anything and everything you'll need to know about setting up your tank and many other things. it's the sticky called Setting up> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

 

[gone fishin]

Sorry to read about your fishes. If at all possible call ahead to your LFS to find out what the salinity is. Then match your QT to the LFS salinity. Once you actually have the fish float for temp then put the fish in.

It is difficult to say what actually happened to your fish a few thoughts,

Even "gentle" copper is still poison, What was the actual copper level in the QT. If your going to dose copper then it is a must to have a test. Also, if using copper do not use any type of ammonia sequester product like prime. This will create a toxic soup.

What type of circulation or flow did you have in the tank, thinking of gas exchange and oxygen in the tank.

Did you notice any other symptoms such as discoloration, excess slime, spots, sores, lesions, scratching, breathing heavy, gasping at the surface, reddening of the gills.

Try not to get frustrated, these things do happen.

 

[Ytsejam02]

Sorry to read about your fishes. If at all possible call ahead to your LFS to find out what the salinity is. Then match your QT to the LFS salinity. Once you actually have the fish float for temp then put the fish in.

It is difficult to say what actually happened to your fish a few thoughts,

Even "gentle" copper is still poison, What was the actual copper level in the QT. If your going to dose copper then it is a must to have a test. Also, if using copper do not use any type of ammonia sequester product like prime. This will create a toxic soup.

What type of circulation or flow did you have in the tank, thinking of gas exchange and oxygen in the tank.

Did you notice any other symptoms such as discoloration, excess slime, spots, sores, lesions, scratching, breathing heavy, gasping at the surface, reddening of the gills.

Try not to get frustrated, these things do happen.

Trying! I'm seeing lots of conflicting advice on the copper, which is frustrating, but not unexpected.

I'm still floored because I looked at them at 7am, and at 8am they were dead.

I did not see anything specific. One seemed to have it's gills expanded (ie - sticking out) more than the other clown, not sure if that means anything. Would the red gills be on external?

No lesions, no gasping. They weren't at the surface at all with what I observed, so I don't think it was an oxygen issue. But to answer your question, I have a very small filter (tetra whisper) to run the water thru a polisher. It's a 10 gallon tank.

I think the color was fine, even when they were dead.

I floated them for about 20m before I even started the drip.

Good point on the salinity. I'm also goig to bring my water for testing to make sure my #'s match what I see, so I have some amount of reassurance.

Thx for the info on ammonia. I was just planning to do water changes to manage it.

i'll definitely get a copper test.

I called the LFS. They stated they don't have a guarantee, but that they'd replace the fish because they don't want to lose me as a customer. I appreciate that. Honestly, money isn't the issue, I just don't want to kill any more. It sux when you think you're doing the right think, and these are the results.