Need advice on lowering nitrates

[ksicard]

Here's the scoop, I'm having trouble lowering my nitrates and would like some advice on how to proceed with achieving that goal. Here's my tank details:

Standard 75g tank w/ 20-25g of sump water, so about 90-100g total system (maybe 80-85g with rock/sand taken out).

ES2 cone skimmer (rated for 300g) yes I know this over kill, but I wanted a skimmer that would work on a larger tank if I upgraded

GFO/carbon reactors run 24/7 1 cup carbon and 1.5 cups GFO. Carbon replaced every two weeks/GFO every 3-4 weeks.

10-20% water change every week

RODI water for top off/water change

I have a draw string filter sock (added about two weeks ago so this is new, made the mistake of buying a mesh filter sock and not felt which I plan to change to felt next time I buy supplies)

I feed 2-3x a day depending on time, frozen 2-3x a week otherwise life spectrum pellets, frozen cyclopeeze 2x a week/rods food 2-3x a week (I mix the two and feed via feeding syringe)

One thing to note is that I don't syphon my sand during water changes because I don't really have any room to syphon, only 18 inches of width to work with gets taken up really fast. I do my best to not over feed and let heaps of food accumalate on sand. I would syphon if my LPS/zoa's didnt take up the sand bed and rock.

80-110lbs of live rock/3-4 inch sand bed, fiji pink sand

Tank has been established since January 16th, 2013

I also dose Fuel for AA 2x a week/feed reef roids 1x a week if I remember

For fish I have:
x1 large royal pencil wrasse
x1 medium/large yellow tang
x1 medium purple queen anthias
x1 baby regal tang (I mean BABY, 2 inches or less)
x3 baby blue/green chromis (also very small 2 inches or less)

I would think my fish load is only about medium considering my maintence routine that if anything I do more than what I said (sometimes 2 WC a week).

My nutrient levels aren't terrible but I think I could achieve a wee bit better colors if I could get my No3 down. My Po4 sits pretty stable between 0.03-0.04ppm (red sea test kit), and my No3 sits at 4-6ppm (red sea test kit). My test kits aren't horribly old or anything and I'm pretty meticulous about testing and follow instructions to a tee, by setting timers etc...

My sps growth is really great and I have no complaints there, frags are happily encrusting and mini colonies are growing pretty decently. But I feel I could achieve some better coloration if I were able to lower my No3, i'm not looking to get 0ppm nitrates but I'd like to get in between 1-2ppm. I run a Alk level of 10dkh +-0.5dkh so I'd like to maintain some nutrients in order to avoid stn/rtn, I've had great results in terms of growth with this setup and my color is decent but I'm trying to get the impressive colorations that I see here on RC and I think my nitrates are hindering that.

I would like to avoid carbon dosing since I run my alk higher and I'm not looking to completely change my tank drastically to chase a number, so far I've been successful in my book with my current setup so I'd like to avoid drastic/big changes such as vodka dosing/bio pellets on an already established tank as I've read the many horror stories.

Let me know if you need any other information or have ideas/advice on what I can do to achieve 1-2ppm No3. I think that's all the information you should need for nutrient reduction advice.

Last thing actually, I noticed that a lot of debri has built up in my sump so I'm going to the store today to get a cheap maxi jet to get some more flow down there to blow it around. I also re scaped the tank about 3-4 weeks and tried to syphon the sand then so I have made some attempts at syphoning the sand.

That should be everything, thanks guys.

 

[insomniac2k2]

I have had my best luck to date with seachem pond matrix in a low flow area(fuge chamber in sump).

You can use regular matrix in a higher flow area.

Although I do need to say that carbon dosing really isn't that complicated or a bad thing. You can have very good results from it, and it is very controllable.

 

[jda]

You can stop the fuel and coral feeding - they just don't need it. Shop vac the debris out of your sump during a water change, don't stir it back into the tank - this is a good export. You should be able to cut back on some food - the pellets are less messy than the frozen, so maybe 60-75% NLS Pellets and 25% mysis/frozen.

I would also stop the GFO and allow the bacteria in the sand the develop (they need both N and P for this) - IMO you are inhibiting their growth to equilibrium by interfering with the addition of the GFO (this can also happen if you dose a carbon source). Once the bacteria establish, your N should be at zero. Fully cycling a reef tank to handle Nitrate and Phosphate can take up to a year, so be patient.

 

[ksicard]

Insomniac2k2, I'm not sure what product your talking about but I'll do some reading up on it to see what it is you're talking about. And the reason I don't want to carbon dose is because high alk+carbon dosing usually = bad and I don't want to change my alk around to carbon dose.

Jda- Alright I'll stop the fuel/reef roids/cyclopeeze feedings and reduce my frozen feedings to 1x maybe 2x a week in very small amounts. I've tried syphoning out the debri in the sump before and it doesn't seem like my syphon waterchange hose (I hook to a mag drive to create suction) can suck it all out effictively. What do you mean by shop vac it out?

Are you sure about stopping GFO, my po4 levels have been very high in the past during the first 3-5 months when I had no sps or GFO. I also let my tank cycle naturally via piece of deli shrim and water/rock cycle no chemicals. The tank has been setup for about 9 months now or close to it so I'm not sure if it really needs to cycle any further. I also fear browning out all my sps by doing that so that approach kind of scares me.

 

[Stolireef]

I feed 2-3x a day depending on time, frozen 2-3x a week otherwise life spectrum pellets, frozen cyclopeeze 2x a week/rods food 2-3x a week (I mix the two and feed via feeding syringe)

This sounds like a pretty classic case of overfeeding. I have a 110 with a very similar bioload and feed once per day. I vary between pellets, flake, nori (every day for my yellow tang), and frozen food. If the fish can't consume the food within about 3-5 minutes (other than the nori) your just adding nutrients to the water column.

I do occasionally supplement with reefroids but this is a pinch maybe once or twice per week.

I do recommend adding a powerhead to the sump. It works wonders with keeping the detritus suspended so that the skimmer can get to it. I ditched my filter socks some time ago and haven't seen any negative results.

 

[ksicard]

You make a good point, I enjoy feeding so maybe I do over do it. I only feed small amounts at a time till all is consumed before adding any more food so I thought I didn't over feed but I'm going to reduce it down to once a day and only feed frozen 2x a week and really struggle against the temptation to fatten up my fish as much as possible.

and do you change which section the pump is in in your sump? I have two seperate sections and I'm wondering if I should alternate sections each week to make sure all the debri doesn't settle in one section.

 

[Stolireef]

My pump is in the main circulation chamber where the skimmer is located. (it's only a two chamber sump).

Keep in mind that what ever you feed a fish is ultimated excreted (read pooped or peed) by the fish. So, even if your fish consume everything you feed, they excrete a big portion of that amount.

Then again, nothing in this hobby is written in stone. Rather, just follow some simple rules of thumb consistently and you'll do well. I agree that feeding is fun but you know the saying...too much of a good thing....

 

[insomniac2k2]

http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-Matrix-Bio-Media-Liter/dp/B0002A5VIO - Regular medium to high flow
http://www.amazon.com/Water-Garden-...F8&qid=1378321440&sr=1-1&keywords=pond+matrix - for low flow

I have other posts explaining my experiences with pond matrix. Needless to say, I have and still do carbon dosed. I could never get the desired results that I wanted in my tank without running Pond matrix.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Stolireef]

I really like the 'food for thought' line in this thread. Thanks for the humpday smile.

 

[jda]

I mean use a wet vacuum to get the debris out of the sump. Do it during a water change when you can clean your sump out really good. Let the return fill up the display and get the sump nearly empty and then use the wet vacuum on the rest.

As for the GFO, think long term... there are many, many reef tanks that don't use GFO or Carbon and all tanks got by without either 10, or whatever, years ago. If you have aragonite sand, the aragonite will bond the phosphate and bacteria in the sand will get the nitrates down to zero and also manage the phosphate bonds in an equilibrium with the demand. This bacterial equilibrium is the end of the cycle for a reef tank, but can take a really long time (like up to a year) and more and more people are interrupting it by using GFO, carbon, etc. because of either under education, impatience or lack of experience. The sand does need cleaned or replaced every so often, which is another thread for another day, but it works very well.

 

[homegrowncichli]

I got an aquaripure denitifier, it works off of vodka, you can get the small one. I got the medium size for my 90gal setup, and it brought my nitrates from 20-40ppm to zero within 2 months. I've got a FULL fish load, and the medium size one can handle them all plus more. No more water changes.

 

[Stolireef]

I mean use a wet vacuum to get the debris out of the sump. Do it during a water change when you can clean your sump out really good. Let the return fill up the display and get the sump nearly empty and then use the wet vacuum on the rest.

As for the GFO, think long term... there are many, many reef tanks that don't use GFO or Carbon and all tanks got by without either 10, or whatever, years ago. If you have aragonite sand, the aragonite will bond the phosphate and bacteria in the sand will get the nitrates down to zero and also manage the phosphate bonds in an equilibrium with the demand. This bacterial equilibrium is the end of the cycle for a reef tank, but can take a really long time (like up to a year) and more and more people are interrupting it by using GFO, carbon, etc. because of either under education, impatience or lack of experience. The sand does need cleaned or replaced every so often, which is another thread for another day, but it works very well.

What he said. Go slow and you'll get there.

 

[Branden_Pearson]

Ever thought about experimenting with a turf scrubber? Could help with phosphate and nitrate control.