Need Help Establishing QT Procedures

[Cas8100]

Hi All,

I'd like to ask advice on quarantine and hospital tanks (I do understand the difference between the two). I've read many theories and posts on the subject but would like some input on developing an efficient and easily repeatable process that I can use every time. Here's my list of thoughts and questions, in no particular order:

1) My main system is a 40 gallon Nuvo with a refugium in back. I use an Apex DOS to change 1% of total water volume between 7:00 and 8:00 each morning. Between the AWC, refugium, and dosing 2 part, my parameters have been rock solid.

2) I do not want the maintenance of having an additional tank fully cycled, so this QT/Hospital tank will sit dry in a closet until I have the need to set it up. I have an empty cheapo 10 gallon tank that I'll use for this purpose. Most posts I've read either recommend having the QT/Hospital tank fully cycled before it is needed, or having a piece of live rock or sponge filter seeding in the main tank so that some biological filtration is ready when needed. I'll plan to go with the second route.

3) It's my understanding that once a piece of live rock or filter sponge goes from the main system to a QT/Hospital tank, it probably shouldn't ever be added back to the main system. I would think this would be even more important once any copper or medications have been administered during quarantine. With this in mind, I don't want to have to throw a good piece of live rock in the trash every time I decide to set up the QT/Hospital system. I suppose I could boil the live rock and then reintroduce it to the main system afterwards, but perhaps it would make more sense to establish something that is either disposable or more easily disinfected and reused. I'd thought of replaceable sponge filters and bio balls for this purpose. The ceramic bio media is intriguing because it seems like it would offer a lot of biological filtration in a very small footprint. But again, I'm not sure how this would be easier to reuse than live rock.

4) When it comes time to set up the QT/Hospital tank, it was my plan to use a percentage of water from the main system and the remainder fresh salt mix from my AWC barrels (I usually mix 40 gallons at a time and let the AWC work through it). I'd place a sponge filter in the water for filtration and aeration (hopefully already seeded with bacteria from the main system) along with any live rock or bio filtration that I might have set aside for this purpose. What percentage needs to come from the main tank is a question.

5) Is it necessary to have any additional filtration going? I could put one of these cheap power filters on the back (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Tech-5-15-Aquarium-Power-Filter-to-Clean-and-Maintain-Tanks/10313136) and just use a new cartridge every time I start up the tank. I suppose this would function more for large particle physical filtration instead of biological filtration.

6) Regarding ammonia and state of "the cycle": Here's where I seem to read all sorts of differing comments. Will the QT/Hospital tank start off "cycled" if it is set up with some type of biological material and water from the main system? I would think it would be instantly cycled, unless the amount of biological filtration I have supplied isn't enough to handle whatever I have in the tank, and how much I'm feeding whatever is in the tank. I would also think if I have supplied enough biological filtration, ammonia won't develop as it'll immediately convert to nitrate, just like it does in my main system. If I don't have adequate biological filtration, I'll end up with ammonia and have to address it with more frequent water changes.

7) Do any of the common treatments (i.e. Seachem Cupramine) harm biological filtration, potentially upsetting the status of whether or not the tank is adequately "cycled."

If you've made it reading this far, thank you! As I mentioned above, my main priority is to establish an efficient and repeatable procedure. I'd like to have all supplies on hand so that when we end up with a new or sick fish, I'll have everything I need ready to go in my quarantine kit.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

CS

 

[Tastee]

Need Help Establishing QT Procedures

Seeding a QT freshly setup with material that has been in your DT will kick off a small cycle quite quickly. It will however need time for the bacteria to populate whatever filter medium you are using, if you use that new (e.g. a new filter pad for for a HOB filter).

As long as you can sterilise whatever your filter media is after use (e.g. sponge filters) then there is no harm keeping that in your sump if you have space so it is already seeded.

Marine Pure balls are not that expensive, and one that you take from your sump or DT into your QT will go a long way to introducing a good bacteria load. You could then throw that away afterward - I would not trust trying to sterilise something that porous.

Once you have seeded it via one of the mechanisms above the bacteria will quickly populate any other porous material in the tank. Adding a bacteria culture (there are lots) won't hurt either. You can use an Ammonia badge and dump in some Prime if you did get a small spike.

Using water from the DT is ok for QT but not advisable for HT as you may simply introduce the same problem you are trying to fix in the HT, e.g. Ich. It also won't help much with the cycle as very little bacteria is in the water column, it is resident on porous material.

How much filtration you need depends on how many fish you are housing and how big they are. Ultimately it is all about the surface area. A HOB filter is an option but in HT you want to remove the carbon as it will strip out the medications. Something you can run Ceramic Noodles or better Marine Pure in is best.

I personally use an Aqua One Reflex 35 (Australian branding, not sure what it is in your part of the world) which has an integrated rear sump/filter. This has ceramic noodles and a large sponge. I seed it with some Polyfilter I keep in my DT when I fire it up as well as a dose of bacteria culture. So far I have only had to use it as a QT except for one time when a new fish in quarantine when it developed a sore (unfortunately it didn't make it). To date I have had no measurable Ammonia or Nitrites, just Nitrates (which I expect).

Not sure about the other questions sorry.


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[Cas8100]

Tastee,

Excellent. Thanks for taking the time for such an in depth response. I posted on ********* as well and many folks recommending biospira as a bacteria supplement. Obviously this is totally subjective based on what animals are in the tank and how much they are fed, but do you have any thoughts on how to determine how much porous material / bio filtration is necessary for a tank? I've always gone with the "œmore is better" line of thought, but now that I'm talking about disposable materials for QT/HT the cost factor becomes more relevant.

Thanks again

 

[FranktheTankTx]

Nice thread. I am considering a comeback & was just pondering several items including this very topic. I'm thinking about picking up a small AIO acrylic tank that can just sit on the Kitchen counter. Set it up with a sponge filter from the sump & run it only when I QT something.

Thanks for this thread. Got me going in the right direction.

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[Tastee]

Need Help Establishing QT Procedures

I'm not really sure how you would judge how much filter material is enough in a QT. In my case I have 3 cartridges of ceramic noodles (probably about 45 or so in total) and a 10"x2"x3/4" sponge, so I have a fair bit of surface area. I have no issues setting this up from scratch, ghost feeding for a week if I can (would skip this for urgent HT need) and seeding it with a 2x1" piece of poly filter from my sump and some bacterial culture before adding 2 small fish.

I am sure it could support up to 6 reasonably sized fish in a pinch, just with weekly WCs to reduce nitrates. I would really try not to add them all at once however to let the bacteria multiply as the bio load increases.

The only disposable item would be the Poly Filter as I would re-use everything else, sterilising the noodles and sponge (& tank) if needed.

I would not be comfortable with anything in a 10g tank with just a sponge filter without having an Ammonia badge and the ability to check morning and evening at a minimum. And to do frequent WCs. I would add a HOB of some sort to let me add noodles etc instead. A basic Aqua Clear HOB with some additional noodles in the main chamber would do the trick, just remove the carbon and keep the physical wool if you are adding medications.


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[Uncle99]

I just use the glass, the water, a sponge filter, heat and desk lamp.
I never keep anything in QT for more than 15 days, I make a 10% water change every second day. If the eat from the start and behave normally, I see no need for more than 15 days. I have seen more fish die from over lengthy QT, than ones, not QT at all.

Only if there is a diease do I covert to a HT, where the cycled would be killed anyways.

 

[Cas8100]

Thanks Tastee and Uncle99. This gives me enough info to get started.

 

[solitude127]

[MENTION=349233]Cas8100[/MENTION]
For #3, never boil live rock or rock that was live. It'll release toxins in the air.
For Biological media for a QT tank.... I've been using Seachem Matrix. Very porous and does not absorb medications. If my QT wasn't always running, I'd have SeaChem Martix in my sump in a media bag and when I would need a QT tank, biological filtration is already established.

 

[Cas8100]

[MENTION=349233]Cas8100[/MENTION]
For #3, never boil live rock or rock that was live. It'll release toxins in the air.
For Biological media for a QT tank.... I've been using Seachem Matrix. Very porous and does not absorb medications. If my QT wasn't always running, I'd have SeaChem Martix in my sump in a media bag and when I would need a QT tank, biological filtration is already established.

Very good point Solitude. Thanks for mentioning it. It seems every now and again I read a newspaper article about a reef tank causing an entire family to fall ill. I'd hate to find myself in that boat.

That Seachem Matrix looks pretty nice. Might pair well with one of their Tidal HOB filters.