Need help identifying issue or disease please

[TheJinxs]

So Marley is our Picasso Triggerfish. He is still a juvenile at around a year to year and a half old. Anyway, I attached 2 photos of him. The best I could grab with how active he is. We think it may be Ich but we aren't sure and would like some advice from more experienced aquarists until we can get to our LFS. We would like to start treating whatever it is but don't want to just start pouring medications in the tank. He's still eating perfectly and his habits haven't changed a bit. No fin crimping or anything yet. This literally popped up in less than 48 hours. We noticed a couple of spots yesterday but thought he might have rubbed up too hard on some of the live rock. Fine this morning but when we came home from work a few minutes ago he was like this. Any questions you need to have answered to help just let me know. Thank you in advance.

 

[cougareyes]

You might be right, any other fish showing signs. I've had ick and if you catch it early it never changed any of my fishes behavior or eating habits. It's a fowlr right, I've had great results using cupramine in display tanks. Let us know when you find out for sure and if you need any other help.

 

[TheJinxs]

It is a FOWLR and no other fish are showing signs as of yet. I really hope it doesn't spread. May I ask what Cupramine is? And how to use it? This is my first time dealing with any kind of disease. We have a QT but nowhere near large enough for the trigger, not to mention the rest of the fish. I'm sorry for seeming idiotic but I'd rather ask for advice than risk the health of my fish. Thank you for responding cougareyes.

 

[cougareyes]

If it's ich, all of your fish have been exposed as well as your tank would be hosting it. So all of the fish would have to be treated and the tank would have to be treated or go fallow. I prefer to treat the whole tank, most others here will recommend against it. There are sticky's here that does explain ick and treatment, but there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. If you find out that it is ick and you would like my experience on how I dealt with it in my 210 fowlr, let me know.

 

[TheJinxs]

If it's ich, all of your fish have been exposed as well as your tank would be hosting it. So all of the fish would have to be treated and the tank would have to be treated or go fallow. I prefer to treat the whole tank, most others here will recommend against it. There are sticky's here that does explain ick and treatment, but there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. If you find out that it is ick and you would like my experience on how I dealt with it in my 210 fowlr, let me know.

I would love to hear what you have to recommend. We are definitely not going to be able to seperate and treat each of them as some of the sticky threads I have read. Whenever you have the time I would like your advice. I'm always open minded to experienced opinions.

 

[cougareyes]

First off before you use a medication like copper, make sure it is ick. Once you are sure, start right away, sooner the better. If you have any inverts, remove them to qt, make sure they have something to eat. You want to use cupramine by seachem, go to their website and get detailed instructions on how to use it. Keep your skimmer running if you have one, you may need to make some adjustments, but you will remove any carbon, chemipure, etc. The cupramine will not kill your biological filter but get the seachem ammonia alert badge to be safe. Dosing will be tricky because your rocks and substrate will absorb the product. Get the seachem and/or salifert copper test kit, I use both because I'm ocd. Estimate the water volume as close as you can, not the tank size, in the end it will take more product than recommended because of the rocks and substrate. Dose 1/2 dose then next day test the level of copper, you'll find that it will be lower than you expected. Dose another 1/2, next day test again. Continue until you reach therapeutic level. Depending on the amount of rocks, substrate you have will depend on how much more you will have to use. Always test before you add and try and calculate the results of each dosage. Once you get to therapeutic level, stop dosing and it will somewhat level off; you may need to make very slight adjustments after that. Be ready to do water changes if ammonia alerts or you od the cupramine. Topping off and any water changes will lower your level and it is very important to maintain a constant consistent therapeutic level. Test daily and keep therapeutic level throughout, I do 3 weeks. At the end of the 3 weeks, do your water change then I run cuprizorb, again go to seachem's website for detailed info. Run the cuprizorb at least 2 weeks past when your copper test shows zero. If you use chemi pure or a high quality carbon, like rox carbon; put that in now. I also run a poly filter after that, you'll see it will turn blue if there is still copper in the system. You can return your inverts at this point, and all is well. I've done this on 2 systems, one has inverts the other is a full reef. Cupramine seem to be a very good product that can also be completely remove if cuprizorb, carbon, and poly filters are ran long enough afterwards. People kill more fish removing them to inadequate qt tanks and reinfect fish by trying to only treat the ones showing symptoms. Keeping a tank fallow for 90 days can also be challenging and even then fish have been reinfected. This is another choice that is sometimes the best choice.

 

[TheJinxs]

Thank you cougareyes. I really appreciate it. I'm not sure how to be positive that it is ich but I will find a way. Thank you for the info. I'm scared but anything I have to do to save my fish is worth it.

 

[Mishri]

I wouldn't treat an aquarium with live rock with copper.. I've tried, it was impossible to maintain the copper levels. It kept dropping too low to be effective as the rock was absorbing it.

I'd recommend Chlorquine Phosphate (New life spectrum ich shield powder). I've treated a FOWLR effectively with that. -some wrasses can't handle it. and my powder blue tang was sensitive to it. I Had to move him to a different tank during treatment once he got very lethargic-got stuck to my pump... but he recovered and is very healthy now and went back into the tank after a month of treatment. -It killed the algae in my tank and caused an ammonia spike, I had to use ammonia remover.

 

[cougareyes]

Diagnosing disease is really hard and really scary. But if you have heard ick looks like someone took a salt shaker and sprinkled salt over the fish, that is exactly what it looks like. They may shake their head, that's hard too because picasso's have that attitude. They may also seem like they are scratching like bouncing off the rocks.

It took me 5 days using 1/2 the recommended dose each day to get to level, then it was pretty steady. You will reach a saturation point, but most people get impatient. Taking that long may have actually been good, it gave the fish the opportunity to acclimate. Other than the ammonia badge you would not even had known I was treating my tank, the fish ate and acted normally throughout. Oh by the way it was a 210g, 200lbs of liferock, 120lbs of sand, 2L of seachem matrix biomedia, and I had no problem maintaining proper level. All my fish came through with flying colors.

 

[TheJinxs]

Thank you Mishri and cougareyes. I will keep you all updated. I don't know if you can see in the pictures or not how much white he has sprinkled on all his fins and body. He's actually been lethargic for the past few weeks here and there. He puts himself in the corner of the tank and just floats there with his spikes up for minutes at a time. If you come near the tank he starts moving again. With the fish I have listed in the 55 gallon (feather duster was just moved to the 29) would it be safe to use either of those options?