Need help to confirm if this is a Marine Velvet.
- Thread starter DOGGIE750
- Start date
This. Best way I have found other than microscopic examination is behavioral but one needs a trained eye for that, and still, could easily be wrong. Of course if the fish is dead, there is no behavior land the parasite has already "abandoned ship".
Last edited:
ThRoewer
New member
I would strongly advising against copper, especially if you don't know what you have in your tank. Copper may just make matters worse by diminishing the fish's immune systems.
Also copper is only effective at the right dose, which has to be maintained precisely throughout the treatment. This dose may also be different for different parasites.
Copper in a DT with coral sand and calcium containing rocks is bound to fail and the copper bound by sand and rocks will later cause a lot of negative long term effects.
When in doubt, TTM in combination with at least 1 or 2 formalin dips is a good "catch it all" treatment against protozoan parasites.
You can also add CP if velvet is of special concern.
PraziPro can be added if you are concerned about worms or flukes
Also copper is only effective at the right dose, which has to be maintained precisely throughout the treatment. This dose may also be different for different parasites.
Copper in a DT with coral sand and calcium containing rocks is bound to fail and the copper bound by sand and rocks will later cause a lot of negative long term effects.
When in doubt, TTM in combination with at least 1 or 2 formalin dips is a good "catch it all" treatment against protozoan parasites.
You can also add CP if velvet is of special concern.
PraziPro can be added if you are concerned about worms or flukes
I'll take your advice.
I'll take your advice.
But TTM would not be feasible, I am doing the Hyposalinity method.
I had the temp down to 69F to reduce swelling and easier for the sick fish to breath. My Copper is only 0.1- 0.2, Salinity is 1.015.
Goal:
Salinity to 1.009 by Friday 1/22
Temp to 76F by Friday 1/22
Raise to 86 by next 1/27, speed up the ich cycle (what about the m.velvet?)
Change water as needed.
Will adjust DT salinity to 1.015, is this reef friendly?
This treatment to 2 month
At 3rd month, prep to inbound back to DT with salinity at 1.015, temp back to normal 76F
Please advise if this ok. Thank you.
I'll take your advice.
But TTM would not be feasible, I am doing the Hyposalinity method.
I had the temp down to 69F to reduce swelling and easier for the sick fish to breath. My Copper is only 0.1- 0.2, Salinity is 1.015.
Goal:
Salinity to 1.009 by Friday 1/22
Temp to 76F by Friday 1/22
Raise to 86 by next 1/27, speed up the ich cycle (what about the m.velvet?)
Change water as needed.
Will adjust DT salinity to 1.015, is this reef friendly?
This treatment to 2 month
At 3rd month, prep to inbound back to DT with salinity at 1.015, temp back to normal 76F
Please advise if this ok. Thank you.
ThRoewer
New member
Neither does hyposalinity.
And copper is questionable in it's affectivity as well.
Only sure thing against velvet are formalin and CP
Just found out too
Just found out too
Yeah man, just found that either Hypo and TTM would treat velvet. I am going back to my initial approach.
Just found out too
Yeah man, just found that either Hypo and TTM would treat velvet. I am going back to my initial approach.
tassod
New member
I would have to disagree with you on copper, it is a proven method to kill ich and velvet and has been for years. Why is everyone so against copper?
I don't believe the therapeutic dose is that difficult to maintain, certainly not more than keeping hypo levels constant. As for CP, i have to say I have had no luck at all with it and have not seen it cure anything. I've used both New life and ebay versions and also have had used a prescription version as well. All i can say about CP is that it consistently made my fish to stop eating and eventually die of some kind of bacterial infection.
Right now i am using coppersafe and so far all my remaining fish that are still alive have ceased to have symptoms and are doing great. If I had acted quicker with copper i am sure I would have saved all my other fish that died but i was reluctant to use it because of all the bad wrap it has been getting. Sorry, just my 2 cents.
ThRoewer
New member
Copper is a toxin that suppresses the fish's immune system.
It may be effective against ich if you maintain the correct dose, but against ich we have now far better tools that don't harm the fish.
Velvet may or may not be treated by copper. There are velvet strains that can handle twice the lethal dose for fish. Other velvet strains have shown the ability to adapt to copper if the dose is not high enough to kill it.
Chloroquine Phosphate is a more effective cure for a velvet infection (maybe even ich) with most fish, and formalin works well enough for those who can't tolerate CP.
Copper is a tool from the old days, and even back then it was controversial.
It may be effective against ich if you maintain the correct dose, but against ich we have now far better tools that don't harm the fish.
Velvet may or may not be treated by copper. There are velvet strains that can handle twice the lethal dose for fish. Other velvet strains have shown the ability to adapt to copper if the dose is not high enough to kill it.
Chloroquine Phosphate is a more effective cure for a velvet infection (maybe even ich) with most fish, and formalin works well enough for those who can't tolerate CP.
Copper is a tool from the old days, and even back then it was controversial.
lespaul339
Reefer
A little off subject. But can cupramine blind a fish? It seems like ever since I treated my Copperband Butterfly with cupramine he isn't as good at eating from the water column anymore. He misses a lot she he goes to eat black worms from the water column. Its ok because I target feed him anyways to make sure he gets enough food.
ThRoewer
New member
I'm not sure about that, but I remember that back in the 80s there were a couple of reports and articles about fish going blind. Back then the theory was on high nitrates, but there was no supporting evidence.
While copper could play a supporting role in this, I rather think the root cause is a different.
Bacterial infections of the optic nerve are one possibility, toxins or a late complication from being caught with cyanide another.
While copper could play a supporting role in this, I rather think the root cause is a different.
Bacterial infections of the optic nerve are one possibility, toxins or a late complication from being caught with cyanide another.
I strongly recommend to stop messing with the water temp. Moving between 76->69->86 is only going to stress and help kill the fish.
-Matt
Right. 75F would be my recommendation.
What he said.
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