Need some help setting up my new reef

M

mwilbur1084

New member
Hi I am a Concord OH Resident setting up a New 250 Gal Reef tank and I am in desparate need of advice and design Ideas I plan on signing up and making the next months club meeting
I am looking for all of your good ideas to include in my new 250 gal reef tank setup. I am currently plumbing the sump and would welcome your ideas of how to partition the 125 gal tank I am using for the fuge and sump. I am planning on using 2 Berlin external skimmers driven by the 2 Iwaki MD40RLXT Water Pumps I plan to use to return the water to the tank upstairs. Plan is to support 1200 gal per hour. I would like to set up the tank to support whatever hard and soft corals I can find. Big ambitions I know but figure I should do it right or don’t do it at all. Anyway I have a 72 in outer orbit mounted on the 125 gal show tank upstairs with nothing but tap water in it and I am ready to get started on the sump design. Question is how much of the 72 X 18 X 22 in space do I allocate for the bubble traps and fuge and any other features I should include. I would like to use the pumps to mix and move my new salt water in and from a storage trash can on the floor beside the sump to and from the sump during water changes and to move top off RO water from a separate storage can to the sump. Any other ideas would be very welcome

Thanks

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data...5DSC02003sm.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/181365slots.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data...365overflow.JPG
 
Welcome Mark,

Your picture links are not working for me. I'll get started helping you as best as I can. I am not sure if you have found the large tank forum yet. If not, you can find some good pictures digging around in there. Since you will be dealing with a 6ft wide sump. I would plan to allocate 18" for your bubble trap area. I would try and design your sump so that water flows from left to right or right to left across the sump. Don't drop your drains in the middle of the sump. This will allow a few things to happen. You can make and an 18" area for drains and skimmer to drop into. The intial large bubbles can be stopped there. You can build the refugium in the middle to slow the water and bubbles down more there. That should leave a third chamber of 10-12" that you can pull water through for your return pumps. The third chamber is also a good area to install PH probes, temp probes and auto top off float sensors. click on my lil red house and you can get an idea of what I am talking about. The water in my system flows from right to left.
 
Some More Sump Plan Details

Some More Sump Plan Details

Here is a stick drawing of the current plan I would welcome any suggestions to improve the setup now is the time to change anything that might be better done another way
181365sump2.GIF
 
photos of the tank and sump setup

photos of the tank and sump setup

here are the photos of the setup in progress any suggestions would be very welcome



181365DSC02003sm.JPG
181365slots.JPG
181365overflow.JPG
 
Glad to see you planning and researching before just going for it. I agree with everything Mike660r said about the sump.

I would like to add that if you are going to flow 1200 gph through your sump that is fine but 1200gph through a refugium is a lot in my opinion. One good way to split that up would be to have your refugium on one end with a branch from your drains supplying it but the rest dumping into the sump where your skimmer is.
I have a 140g refugium that only flows about 350gph through it but there are a couple powerheads in it the keep things moving around. I feel that flowing the water through the refugium with deep sand bed slower gives it a better opportunity to remove nitrates and do its job than if you have the water cranking through.

That brings me to another thing. Lots of people have run Berlin skimmers, including me, and at the time I thought it was perfect. After reading and learning more about skimmers and reef tanks, I honestly wouldn't use a Berlin (rated for up to 250g) on a 20g tank. That was the FIRST of many poor purchases I made when getting into the saltwater hobby. You can find many good skimmers rated for your potential 400g system around the $300 range. I sold a Berlin skimmer last year on the forums for $30 with a new "turbo" pump that I had paid $40 for still in the box. Consider it a learning experience and don't sweat it. When you think about the hundreds or thousands of dollars that your livestock will cost eventually, it doesn't seem so bad to drop a few hundred for the right equipment. I would recommend researching and choosing from any of these manufacturers: ATI, Octopus, Euro-Reef, Deltec, HSA, ASM, ETS. There are lots more that are good but I would stay away from skimmers like Berlin, Prizm, Coralife, AquaC, any Beckett skimmers or downdraft skimmers since they are outdated technology and some use triple the electricity that a recirculating skimmer would.

Your drawing makes my eyes go nuts :eek: LOL
I see your return pumps but it seems like you have them drawing water up from the tank. You know that these Iwaki pumps are external only and are not self-priming? They will not draw any water into them and must be flooded to get the flow started. Most people drill a hole and install a bulkhead into the sump to plumb their return pump to.

In your drawing you have acrylic baffles but a glass tank. It is fairly easy to silicone some glass baffles into place and they will hold up much better than acrylic on glass. Lots of people have had trouble with acrylic flexing and bowing too much to hold up when siliconed to glass and the silicone does not adhere to acrylic well. The cost of some 1/4" glass would be roughly the same as the cost of the acrylic you would need. If you buy the glass pre cut ask them to sand the edge that will be the top so while reaching into your sump you dont have to avoid sharp glass. Most glass shops will include that in the cutting charge anyway.

I don't know if you had this in your plans yet but use ball valves and unions (or a true union ball valve) before and after every pump so you can shut off the flow and remove the pump for servicing or replacement without too much trouble and mess.

If you haven't heard of the "herbie" method of drains you should definitely check it out >>>HERE<<<
I have been using the same method for years now and have had no trouble and my upstairs tank is so silent that the Seaswirl motor is the loudest item on it. It also eliminates salt creep caused by bubbles entering the drain water and then bubbling out of the drains to the surface and popping. There is no air, no bubbles and no noise with this method. If you ever want to see a upstairs/basement system utilizing this method just let me know and you can stop by here anytime. (it may cost you a fortune in gas but my house has no entry fee :) )

I am sure this will be enough info to either completely confuse you or cause 1,000 more questions so I will stop now.

Hope that helps.
-- Kevin
 
One more thing... Your drawing shows trash cans. I use 55g food-safe plastic barrels that I cut the tops off with a sawzall for a sump. You can use Uniseals to plumb into the barrels easily and they are VERY durable when compared to a trash can, even a Brute can.
 
Wow thanks for the detailed and informative post

I really didnt want to know that the pumps could not pump the watr up from the sump but thanks for sharing guess I have to figure out how to drill throught the 3/4 inch glass side walls on the sump tank thats going to be a real challenge

seriously thanks for all of the awesome advice better to know now rather than spend a whole weekend trying to get the pumps to work

the berlin skimmer is still in the box and on its way back to marine depot as we speak if you could have any skimmer you wanted what would be your first choice?

I would welcome the opertunity to stop out and discuss your (herbee) overflow design as I am certain once I do get the pumps hooked up that overflow noise is one more detail I will have to resolve as the show tank is only 20 ft from the master bedroom and my wife already thinks I am nuts for spending so much on the tank , and I am certain a flushing toilet sound all night long will get me commited and my tank flushed (smile)

please PM me your address and contact info

thanks again for all of the advise
 
I have drilled many many holes in glass and have even popped 4 holes in 3/4" glass in my 140g refugium. I don't mind driling the tank for you if you need it done. I will PM my info so we can get things ironed out.

-- Kevin
 
Looks like Kevin has you pointed in the right direction. I'm interested in his Herbie overflow also. If you need a pair of hands for something or help on short notice, I'm minutes away in Concord too.

Either way, I'd like to see what your setup looks like.
 
Would the eheim 1262 be a good alternate choice it is submersable and would eliminate the need to drill the holes but I am bit woried about the flow rate at 10FT head and the heat they could add to the tank any suggestons are always welcome
 
That pump isn't pressure rated for the kind of head pressure you'll be putting on it. You'd be near it's max head pressure & would probably only get a few hundered gph at best.

You can run your pump intake over the top of your sump. I've been doing this for almost 20 years. The only negative is that your sump will have to be at a fairly high level. At least 2/3 filled when in operation.

I would use an Iwaki pump because of the durability & pressure rated values. They use a bit more electricity but will run for 10 years+ without a problem. Any external pump with seals( Reeflo) for a main return pump is a risk. They don't last & you get a leak when you least need one. Imo, most of these pumps are crap & have been made cheaply to cut costs to make them marketable to the hobby community.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11949858#post11949858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwilbur1084
Would the eheim 1262 be a good alternate choice it is submersable and would eliminate the need to drill the holes but I am bit woried about the flow rate at 10FT head and the heat they could add to the tank any suggestons are always welcome
Click to expand...

If you mean Ehiem 1262 for a return pump?
The Ehiem hobby pumps are fantastic for recirculation pumps for skimmers and Ca or sulpher reactors, or to hide in rockwork for non-alternating flow. And will last a rather long time for those uses.

But Big E is more on par with return pump suggestions. Some of the GEN X and little giants will work too. But the Iwaki's are pretty much the caddy's of pumps from what I have heard.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11956820#post11956820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CleveYank
But the Iwaki's are pretty much the caddy's of pumps from what I have heard.
Click to expand...

The blueline series was designed by the guy who originally designed the pumps for iwaki. You can get the improved pump cheaper if you go with the blueline. The reefflow pumps are good for externals to. I just don't have any personal experience with them.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11942047#post11942047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwilbur1084
the berlin skimmer is still in the box and on its way back to marine depot as we speak if you could have any skimmer you wanted what would be your first choice?
Click to expand...

Mark,

That is a very open ended question. Every six months something new comes out that is the latest and greatest. The first question you have to ask yourself is. How much water volume will I have an how heavily am I going to stock the tank? The next question is how much are you willing to spend. You will find several schools of thought as to which skimmer is the best for the price range. I have a preference for any type of needle wheel re circulating skimmer. I have tried the beckett style injection skimmers and they are in no way as near as stable as my recirculation skimmer is. There are several brands on the market of each type. Just go through and do your research on them and ask questions when you have them.
 
My only complaint about Iwaki's and Bluelines are they tend to be a bit loud. For a remote sump it shouldn't be an issue.

I am running a Reeflo Wahoo and am very pleased with it. You can't hear in running from a few feet away and it has no problem pumping up to the first floor. Their only downside is they are much larger in size than some of the other pumps. Electical draw under head pressure is similar to that of a similar rated Iwaki or Blueline.
 
Over the last few years I have ran a barracuda, a snapper, and several darts.

I had some issues with darts on my system about a year ago. Sequence was always more than willing to hand me a new pump. It turned out it was a problem with the packing material, and mishandling in shipping.

With a 3 year warranty, power use to flow ratio, and customer service I don't think they can be beat.
 
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