Need some help

[Evyllchyld]

After about 4 months of my tank being setup, and my clowns being in there for close to 2 1/2 - 3 months. I believe they came down with Ich two days ago (from what i've seen) . Its a 12g and they are the only thing in there besides a cleaning crew consisting of snails and hermits, a hammer coral and a zoa frag. I test my water regularly and ammonia nitrite nitrate have always been at 0, and PH has been 8.2. I did a water change friday, and I tested it today and Nitrates are 10, PH is 7.8 ammonia is 0 and nitrites are 0. I haven't added anything to this tank in about 2 months. What could have caused this?? And can I get some suggestions? Do you think I should let them stay in the 12g for a few days and see if they get better by themselves?? They aren't acting like they used to, but the way they are acting isn't unusual. They are also both breathing a bit heavy. Thanks for any info.

-Brian

 

[reefD]

hum breathing heavy is not good. first thing first. has your tank been having any temp swings? in a tank that small when you do a water change ,top off,etc.....you need to be very very careful that the water is exactly the same temp as tank. i say this because rapid temperature drops can cause ich to show up.

 

[Evyllchyld]

I bought a seperate thermometer and heat up my water to the same temp of the tank everytime I do a water change or topoff. There are normal temperature swings throughout the day because it is a 12g, but I do have a fan blowing on it all day to keep the temp as close to stable as I can. I find that with a fan blowing on the tank all day, I can keep it pretty stable at 80 degrees.

 

[jaze36]

What has the temp been like in the tank? Higher temps can increase metabolism and stress fish. Higher metbolism can reduce the oxygen in you tank and could cause the fish to have an increased rate of breathing, and there is probably not a huge supply in reserve of o2 in a 12 gal. If it is the temp, you can use a frozen bottle of water to help bring it down, or use a fan to blow across the tank. This will evaproate more water and help cool the tank just watch your water level so you don't evap. to much.

 

[jaze36]

posted at the same time, I guess there goes my theory

 

[Evyllchyld]

I use my nano protein skimmer as an airater(sp) It does a crappy job as a protein skimmer, so I removed the cup and just have the airbubbles. When I first added my first clown, I noticed during the day my clown would swim on its side on the top of the tank, and at night he'd swim around. The only two changes from day and night was that at night my lights went out, and my protein skimmer turned on. I only ran it at night cause of all the microbubbles. So I ran it during the day and sure enough he was swimming around all the time and having a grand ole' time.

 

[Ken668]

Try to get your PH up. That is a dangerously low reading. Make sure to aerate your fresh mixed water for at least a 24 hour period before adding it to your tank.

 

[Sk8r]

Try Formula One sinking pellets with garlic: it might give them a boost to throw it off while you're taking measures on the water chemistry. If your fish are struggling to breathe, there may be ich in the gills; but if it's different at times the skimmer is on, there's just not enough oxygen dissolved in the water. Run the bubbles 24/7.

 

[Evyllchyld]

I may of figured out whats wrong. I forgot that last week I added a mandarin to my tank. I went to a LFS and noticed there mandarin was extremely thin. I felt really bad for it. They said it wasn't eating flake food..... I wonder why. Anyways, I have a million pods in my tank. So I figured i'd bring him home and let him faten up on my pods then bring him to another LFS and get store credit, and let them sell it to a good home. I must of gotten the mandarin a little too late. He was at the LFS for 9 days when I picked him up. I had him for a day and a half before he died. I removed him from the tank and noticed he was thinner then I ever imagined, his whole what i'm guessing to be stomach was sucked in and you could see every bone. So maybe they got ich from him.

 

[Evyllchyld]

Ken- Thanks for the reply, that could be it. I have 5 gallon buckets filled with R/O water that I fill whenever they are low, then I just heat it and add it when its needed. So you think that could be the problem? Should I buy something to airate the water and just run it at all times or just take the lids off 24 hours before adding?

Sk8r- Does the formula one pellets come with the garlic on it? or is that something i'll have to add myself??

Its not a severe case right now (in terms of how much ich I can see) so hopefully I can nip it in the butt before things get worse. Also, how can I get my PH up and my nitrates down right now?

 

[reefD]

yeah ph is very low. you should buffer it up so it doesnt swing at night either. this would explain any morning loses if you have had them. reason being is when tank is in darkness a chemical thing happens in the water and it tends to make the ph drop. buffer keeps this from occuring...even better dose kalk at night. also you say you have no skimmer. a small nano tank needs a good skimmer or you need to do weekly water changes to keep the levels low. then you have to only do 20% to prevent "good" bacteria shock and loss. doing 20% on monday and again on friday is a good habit when not using a skimmer on a small nano. also at this point feed sparingly until things are resolves. use a pipette to spot feed the clowns about 5 pieces(even that may be too much) of mysis each and thats all daily. once the rapid breathing goes away you can get back to feeding the way you used to but continueing this practise is not a bad idea.
next you need to address all the levels. first do a 40% water change. do you have a hang on filter? if not get a small one and run carbon. if you have one, change the carbon on the filter ...i recommend chemi pure for small tanks as it will also raise and stablize your ph. next do a search on rapid ntrate reduction method. this method uses small repeatative water changes to reduce the trates. what you do is mix up about 5 gallons(in your 12 gallon tank case) of new saltwater. next syphon out a gollon of water from your tank. next replace water with a gallon of new salt water. then syphon out another gallon then add a new gallon. keep doing this till you changes five gallons. do these small changes every other day until trates are gone and dont re-raise. this works like a charm as i use it all the time and it is very effective.

 

[Evyllchyld]

Its a nanocube, I do water changes every week as it is since i'd don't run a skimmer. I also use chemi-pure. I do about a 2-2 1/2 gallon water change every week.

 

[reefD]

try a fresh water dip also......cant hurt.
you can oxygenate the water by just scooping some up and pouring it back in the bucket do this so the water froths up when the water hits the surface. pouring it high up helps create a nice disturbance with the surface ......this helps add oxygen to the water. this is a quick easy way but a air pump does this better. fromula one has vitamin c in it too which helps also. you can add garlic to any food also as there are addatives on the market that you can soak you food in.

BTW,
maderins require a certain type of pods. not the free swiming kind that group together in the water column. but the ones that stay on the substrate or rocks and never swim into the water column.sometimes the begining stage is free floating but the maderine wont eat them at this stage. they look like really little coachroches. in anycase when purchasing a mande4rin the thin guys are a bad idea as they are already malnutritions and maybe on thier way out nomatter how well you can feed them. i stick with only the specimens that have a full stomach as this ensures that the fish will continue eating and has been at peak nutrition which will prevent any other issues from arising. even better you can train these fish to eat out of a tube or a small container that only they can get into. "madarine diner" lol....pellets or mysis can be used for this.

 

[reefD]

2-2 1/2 a week might not be enough. do the same thing but twice a week or get a good skimmer.

i change 4 galllons once a week on my seahorse tank.
i would luv to do this twice a week but dont have the time. but sometimes i do change 4 gallons twice a week. doesnt hurt at all. the tank flourishes when i do this.

also keep up the chemi pure and dont listen to the direstions. they say it lasts for 6 months. this is under controlled conditions. now under excess nutrient conditions they dont last as long. i like to change mine monthly this way it is always in tip top running condition. but when I have level spikes i change them weekly so they suck up every bit of nutrients.

 

[Ken668]

Brian, when I say to aerate the water for 24 hours, I'm referring to the salt mix not RO/DI water (not that it would hurt to aerate RO/DI too). This time period allows all components of the salt to fully dissolve and "equalize". I'm not certain what happens, but I've read many places that you shouldn't add freshly mixed salt water to a tank. Some sources have said that EXTREME agitation and aeration can decrease this time period, but you should still wait 6-12 hours before adding it to the tank.

 

[scottyc1]

brian,
is it ich or brooklanella (sp)?

 

[reefD]

I too have heard this. but in my experience using instant ocean ive used it fairly fast after mixing with no ill effects. but you do need to aerate it for sure. i do worry that when doing a large water change ,40% or more, this could pose an issue .but so far doing 20% changes I mix the stuff up ...heat it up aerate and use it no issues. about 1 hour after mixing sometimes sooner.

 

[Evyllchyld]

If I decide to QT them, whats the best way to do it and with what medicine to treat them?? I'm only working with a 12g, so I can't really take 10g of out my 12g to put in a new 10g to QT them. But i'm open to all suggestions.

 

[reefD]

lets get a good description what the fish look like/behavior. a picture mayvbe? this will help in treatment advice.

 

[Evyllchyld]

Ken, I have heard that also, but I also heard that isn't needed with instant ocean. So thats what I use. Scott, I'm pretty sure its Ich because the way my clowns are acting, I could be wrong but I thought i read somewhere that a common thing fish do when they have ich is the brush up against things like they are trying to get it off. I have witnessed that behavior first hand in my fathers tank when his tang had it.