New clowns have ich..

[Reefer2727]

The fish are looking better I must admit. I just turned the light on for a closer look and is seems as though almost all the spots are gone. I will probably still quarantine them but at least I have a little time to get the QT tank perfect for them.

So, what should I run in the HOB filter as far as media goes? Currently I just have a big piece of foam in it.

So this tank will spike and cycle. Obviously little feeding and testing everyday? Water changes for ammonia?

 

[wooden_reefer]

So this tank will spike and cycle. Obviously little feeding and testing everyday? Water changes for ammonia?

No No No, you cycle in a separate container, not in the QT. Do you know that nearly all nitrifiaction bacteria are in the surface of the medium? You can transfer the cycled medium to the QT.

While you treat in QT without nitrification for the first three weeks, you watch the generation of ammonia like a hawk. You remove all excess food and poop immediate, take it away from the system.

QT without nitrification is really a real pain in the a$$. Doing just 25% WC in uncycled QT generally does nothing much. 0.3 ppm ammonia is not much less toxic than 0.4. You need great percentage of WC to be effective. Ammonia is not like nitrate, you do not just remove 25% of it and feel all right. Ammonia is very toxic to fish. You can also try Amquel.

Bear with it for three weeks, not eight weeks, IMO.

 

[Reefer2727]

Instead of the Amquel route, would I be better off waiting until the QT naturally cycles? I still have the big piece of live rock in there to help a little. It will be removed before any meds enter the QT tank. I am going to put a piece of foam in the overflow box in my DT and let it run overnight.

This is all assuming the fish look good and are eating and acting normal. I think it may be safer than throwing them into are very unstable environment.

Thoughts?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Instead of the Amquel route, would I be better off waiting until the QT naturally cycles?

You don't have the time. Three weeks is eternity for an ich infested fish.

You can also do this: Just treat fish in QT without nitrification for a few days until the fish is no longer in imminient risk of death, Put it back in ich infested DT. Wait to see if infestation is heavy again.

If you are lucky, your fish may not be heavily infested again before the cycle for the medium for QT is done.

If you are not, just repeat the same one more time, by then the cycle likely will be done.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Also, what do you mean by cycle naturally?

If you mean using fish to cycle or and gradual method, the cycle will be too slow and also too weak. You generally don't want to cycle "naturally".

Use the seed and waste method and preferably wet-dry so that you will have a fast and very robust cycle for QT, with very dense and active nitrification bacteria.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Do not hesitate to cycle in a separate container, it is very easy.

 

[Reefer2727]

If the fish look perfectly healthy and are eating and seem normal. No spots. I don't see the need to rush them into a more stressful environment.

 

[wooden_reefer]

If the fish look perfectly healthy and are eating and seem normal. No spots. I don't see the need to rush them into a more stressful environment.

Then they are not at imminent risk of death.

Infestation may be light on the fish, but may be heavy in the tank: that is, many cysts are in active division now and the next wave may hit you.

Ich can possibly come back, and may be in a big wave.

Get ready.

Cycle medium for QT now.

 

[Reefer2727]

By cycle naturally I meant not using chemicals. Either the shrimp method or some sort of seeding method as you mentioned. I I really just meant to have it totally cycled and ready for them.

 

[Michael]

you wont need a complecated biological fitration system for 2 little clowns in a QT, a sponge filter will be adequate for 2 little fish, you could easily get it ready for your fish,a hang on filter is just as adequate as well.

 

[Seventy]

Then they are not at imminent risk of death.

Infestation may be light on the fish, but may be heavy in the tank: that is, many cysts are in active division now and the next wave may hit you.

Ich can possibly come back, and may be in a big wave.

Get ready.

Cycle medium for QT now.

+1 Have the QT ready just incase, since you have the opportunity.

The Ich lifecycle is 3-4 weeks, so what you are seeing is the parasite moving from the fish to the water column, then it will move from the water column to the substrate, then it will move back into the fish. If you really have Ich in your tank then it will probably be there until the tank is fishless for 6-8 weeks. Ich can not complete its lifecycle without a host. What you are doing with QT is letting the parasite release from the fish, then killing it before it has a chance to host again.

In the ocean the water volume is so massive that the parasite rarely re-infests the same fish. It is far more dangerous in a contained environment.

 

[jenjen]

I use a hang-on filter in my QT, and replace the medium each time I use it. I fill it with water from my main display so the water param's are the same (no need to acclimate fishes). I set up the tank and put fish in the same day and just make sure to siphon poop & food out diligently and do frequent water changes until I stop seeing traces of ammonia.

As long as you have QT set up in a quiet location and include some hiding places (pieces of pvc work great!) there is no reason QT should be considered a stressful environment. It's only stressful for us, usually because either the fish is sick and we're worried or because we're impatiently waiting for a fish to 'pass' QT so it can go to the main display.

 

[stingythingy45]

you wont need a complecated biological fitration system for 2 little clowns in a QT, a sponge filter will be adequate for 2 little fish, you could easily get it ready for your fish,a hang on filter is just as adequate as well.

+1

I really don't see what all the fuss is about.I pulled 5 small fish out of a 55 gallon a few years ago and treated them in a 20L I set up the same day.
All that's required is a heater and HOB filter as well as some PVC so the fish van hide some.Sure ammonia levels rise,but just keep water mixed and ready to change every 3-4 days.
It's really not that big of a deal.I prefer hypo over copper.
Looks up Steven Pro and Ich.
He has a great article on treatment.

 

[stingythingy45]

Here,everything you wanted to know about the parasite and more.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

 

[stingythingy45]

I use a hang-on filter in my QT, and replace the medium each time I use it. I fill it with water from my main display so the water param's are the same (no need to acclimate fishes). I set up the tank and put fish in the same day and just make sure to siphon poop & food out diligently and do frequent water changes until I stop seeing traces of ammonia.

As long as you have QT set up in a quiet location and include some hiding places (pieces of pvc work great!) there is no reason QT should be considered a stressful environment. It's only stressful for us, usually because either the fish is sick and we're worried or because we're impatiently waiting for a fish to 'pass' QT so it can go to the main display.

This is exactly what I did.
Five fish pulled through just fine and no more Ich.
I kept my DT fallow(empty)for 7 1/2 weeks.
Heck the hospital tank even cycled(yes)with fish in it.
Two clowns will be nothing to treat.
I've even read how some folks treat right in the display if you don't have any coral/inverts.Of coarse this would only be if Hyposalinity is used.

 

[wooden_reefer]

you wont need a complecated biological fitration system for 2 little clowns in a QT, a sponge filter will be adequate for 2 little fish, you could easily get it ready for your fish,a hang on filter is just as adequate as well.

A sponge filter will still need to be cycled first in advance. This is enough for two little clown fish, but may be he wants more fish later.

Cycling is never complicated. Wet-dry is easy. HOT box filter, especially a rather large one, will do nicely also.

 

[Michael]

A sponge filter will still need to be cycled first in advance.

well yes, however its not difficult, in fact you could keep the sponge in the sump, providing its washed in tank water regually to avoid clogging, and then it can be used straight away, also with 2 tiny little clowns i doubt there would be a problem if the sponge wasnt prepared, a few water changes whilst its cycling wouldnt be difficult, i suspect with good husbandry practise you could keep them in a bare tank for quite a while if no biological media was present

 

[wooden_reefer]

You don't have the time. Three weeks is eternity for an ich infested fish.

You can also do this: Just treat fish in QT without nitrification for a few days until the fish is no longer in imminient risk of death, Put it back in ich infested DT. Wait to see if infestation is heavy again.

If you are lucky, your fish may not be heavily infested again before the cycle for the medium for QT is done.

If you are not, just repeat the same one more time, by then the cycle likely will be done.

Heavy infestation means that a few nodules are already seen on the body. If you wait until a fish is peppered with nodules, it may be too late.

 

[wooden_reefer]

+1

I really don't see what all the fuss is about.I pulled 5 small fish out of a 55 gallon a few years ago and treated them in a 20L I set up the same day.
All that's required is a heater and HOB filter as well as some PVC so the fish van hide some.Sure ammonia levels rise,but just keep water mixed and ready to change every 3-4 days.
It's really not that big of a deal.I prefer hypo over copper.
Looks up Steven Pro and Ich.
He has a great article on treatment.

The big fuss are:

having to change water every 3-4 days.

exposing fish to some ammonia even if you do WC as planned

incentive to cut the QT short.


The nice thing about having cycled QT medium is not having the above and cycling is very easy. The chance to adhere to long enough QT is increased.

I don't know how large your fish were, but I believe just changing water every 3-4 days is not enough to almost eliminate ammonia in QT in many situations.

Why would one want to expose fish to any ammonia if one can prevent it easily?

I do not have to change any water in QT for eight weeks if the bioload is low. If there are many fish I may change water once in week five. As far as ammonia is concerned, my QT is just like DT.

 

[Reefer2727]

How long should I keep some foam in my overflow box of my DT to get some good bacteria on there?

The fish look much better. Almost all the spots are gone and they seem very vibrant and are eagerly eating anything that goes there way.

There definitely is no major rush to start the treating process.