New Lumen Bright Reflector. ... any info on them
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bubbletip2
Premium Member
sorry
sorry
oops! almost got out there...:strooper:
sorry
oops! almost got out there...:strooper:
bubbletip2
Premium Member
Alright here we go:
I really do appreciate everyone that has provided some valuable data while using the LumenBrights. It appears the majority doing these tests are also 12K Reeflux bulb and Coralvue ballast owners. Looks like a pretty nice package
Now that I switched to the LumenBrights, I also have the same package. So if you look at it like this, there are 3 tests here with data from the exact same lighting system. Kurt, I do realize you have 2 - 12K's going. But still some Reeflux data.
I have been seeing around the forums lately, thread after thread of people that want to take Sanjay's data on Coralvue Reeflux bulbs as scripture. Meaning they don't give off as much par as other 14k bulbs? I was blown away when I looked up the bulbs a few months ago after seeing Mike's(Acropora Nut's) tank in person. Even with the Lumenarcs, these bulbs were bright. Much more so than the mere 159 ppfd Sanjay showed with a magnetic ballast on a 400w 12K Reeflux. Please people. Something is up here. All of us are pulling readings on a Coralvue electronic ballast that does not represent Sanjay's findings. He did not even test the ballasts that these bulbs were meant to be fired from. Is it the ballast causing our high readings? Maybe? Is it the reflector? Now we are on to something
What was most shocking to me about his data is his tests of a 250w 12K Reeflux was much less than most 14K bulbs I was seeing. Geez, I was running an EVC 14K that he measured at 71ppfd on my EVC electronic ballast. He measured a 250w 12K Reeflux at 54ppfd on an EVC ballast:hmm5:
What? a 54
After changing out a 4 month EVC bulb and putting on a 250w 12K, I noticed immediately my tank was a lot brighter. I find it very hard to believe that a 250w 12K can be so weak. I measured it today and will post just for kicks what my readings were under a 7 inch Lumenmax reflector. Something does not add up here.
I do realize our testing environment is slightly different from an open air room with no ambient light and a peg board for proper orientation of the sensor. Great! What do I care about a bulb in the air with no coral in sight anywhere. I am not knocking science and I do appreciate people doing what they do so that we can have somewhat of a guage, but it does not relate to a hill of beans to what we are trying to accomplish. Scientific studies need to be repeated in order to get a real guage of what a bulb can do. Taking readings underneath the water is the only true representation of what we can expect from a bulb to help us grow our coral in each of our individual aquariums. I am so glad I picked up this meter because I can know in an instant what my intensity is anywhere in the tank. I was quite surprised that my individual placement of the species of coral I have obtained was pretty much right on the money without the meter. Having it verified for me just makes it that much more reassuring. Like a warm blanket.
I think the data that Deuce, Kurt and I are showing here is some of the most telling evidence of what these bulbs and reflectors can do. Spread is not an issue people and I feel no need to discuss it any furthur. I am showing 350-400PAR in the middle of my 5ft tank half way down underneath an 18" glass center brace.
A water change was last done on this tank 5 days prior to testing. I typically do weekly water changes, so I am curious what readings would be like if my water was crystal clear. Might be worth testing after doing a carbon change as well. All readings were recorded when a value had sustained at least one second on the meter. I do feel the placement of your arm in the tank will inhibit these reflectors causing a reduced reading. You must be careful to not get in the way of these facets that are trying to direct light from all sides. A "cone" of light if you will. I pretty much took readings wherever there was a coral as well as some bottom tank shots on the sand and even under a ledge that was shaded.
Here are my results from yesterday: Enjoy...
And hopefully if you don't mind Deuce and Kurt: two others -
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Parreadings2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
These bulbs are 16 inches off the water - 16 inches!!! and we are all reading this high on these bulbs. What is even more interesting is how much PAR there is as you move away from the bulb. I guess I was wrong Hahn, these little babies do work away from the bulb, much different then the Lumenarcs. I actually did some PAR readings of a 22" old school Diamond light with a friend yesterday to show that the spread on a Diamond Light does not mean diddly squat. No usable par a ft and a half away from the bulb. I will be posting those findings as well. More to come...
I really do appreciate everyone that has provided some valuable data while using the LumenBrights. It appears the majority doing these tests are also 12K Reeflux bulb and Coralvue ballast owners. Looks like a pretty nice package
Now that I switched to the LumenBrights, I also have the same package. So if you look at it like this, there are 3 tests here with data from the exact same lighting system. Kurt, I do realize you have 2 - 12K's going. But still some Reeflux data.
I have been seeing around the forums lately, thread after thread of people that want to take Sanjay's data on Coralvue Reeflux bulbs as scripture. Meaning they don't give off as much par as other 14k bulbs? I was blown away when I looked up the bulbs a few months ago after seeing Mike's(Acropora Nut's) tank in person. Even with the Lumenarcs, these bulbs were bright. Much more so than the mere 159 ppfd Sanjay showed with a magnetic ballast on a 400w 12K Reeflux. Please people. Something is up here. All of us are pulling readings on a Coralvue electronic ballast that does not represent Sanjay's findings. He did not even test the ballasts that these bulbs were meant to be fired from. Is it the ballast causing our high readings? Maybe? Is it the reflector? Now we are on to something
What was most shocking to me about his data is his tests of a 250w 12K Reeflux was much less than most 14K bulbs I was seeing. Geez, I was running an EVC 14K that he measured at 71ppfd on my EVC electronic ballast. He measured a 250w 12K Reeflux at 54ppfd on an EVC ballast:hmm5:
What? a 54
After changing out a 4 month EVC bulb and putting on a 250w 12K, I noticed immediately my tank was a lot brighter. I find it very hard to believe that a 250w 12K can be so weak. I measured it today and will post just for kicks what my readings were under a 7 inch Lumenmax reflector. Something does not add up here.
I do realize our testing environment is slightly different from an open air room with no ambient light and a peg board for proper orientation of the sensor. Great! What do I care about a bulb in the air with no coral in sight anywhere. I am not knocking science and I do appreciate people doing what they do so that we can have somewhat of a guage, but it does not relate to a hill of beans to what we are trying to accomplish. Scientific studies need to be repeated in order to get a real guage of what a bulb can do. Taking readings underneath the water is the only true representation of what we can expect from a bulb to help us grow our coral in each of our individual aquariums. I am so glad I picked up this meter because I can know in an instant what my intensity is anywhere in the tank. I was quite surprised that my individual placement of the species of coral I have obtained was pretty much right on the money without the meter. Having it verified for me just makes it that much more reassuring. Like a warm blanket.
I think the data that Deuce, Kurt and I are showing here is some of the most telling evidence of what these bulbs and reflectors can do. Spread is not an issue people and I feel no need to discuss it any furthur. I am showing 350-400PAR in the middle of my 5ft tank half way down underneath an 18" glass center brace.
A water change was last done on this tank 5 days prior to testing. I typically do weekly water changes, so I am curious what readings would be like if my water was crystal clear. Might be worth testing after doing a carbon change as well. All readings were recorded when a value had sustained at least one second on the meter. I do feel the placement of your arm in the tank will inhibit these reflectors causing a reduced reading. You must be careful to not get in the way of these facets that are trying to direct light from all sides. A "cone" of light if you will. I pretty much took readings wherever there was a coral as well as some bottom tank shots on the sand and even under a ledge that was shaded.
Here are my results from yesterday: Enjoy...
And hopefully if you don't mind Deuce and Kurt: two others -
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x278/jmemije11/Parreadings2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
These bulbs are 16 inches off the water - 16 inches!!! and we are all reading this high on these bulbs. What is even more interesting is how much PAR there is as you move away from the bulb. I guess I was wrong Hahn, these little babies do work away from the bulb, much different then the Lumenarcs. I actually did some PAR readings of a 22" old school Diamond light with a friend yesterday to show that the spread on a Diamond Light does not mean diddly squat. No usable par a ft and a half away from the bulb. I will be posting those findings as well. More to come...
Last edited:
JRaquatics
New member
Jim when are you going to stop by and test my tank?
bubbletip2
Premium Member
I would be more than happy to test your tank Jeremy. To be able to graph your tank to better know where to place your coral in the future will be nice. Obviously the levels will drop as the months go by, but still you will have an idea of levels when your bulbs are producing the highest numbers in yor tank. Give me a call anytime and I can shoot over there... Don't worry Mike we will get to yours too...:rollface:
glxtrix
New member
well what about my tank, it needs some test lovin too! lol....I know far distance. Those are some great numbers. I really need to get ahold of my reef clubs PAR meter, with my bulbs/ballast combo hitting 86.9 PPFD with only 175W'ers....there has to be some decent numbers. For a lil update, my 3rd reflector came in and I installed it on the tank. Its funny, I had some crappy parobolic on there and it lit my house up when the canopy was flipped open, now that the new reflector is in, hardly any light spill!! I love these things!
bubbletip2
Premium Member
I made a bit of a mistake in saying that the 400w 12K Reeflux bulbs were never tested on a CV ballast. Sorry about that Sanjay. After checking Sanjay's site last night, I guess he did in fact test the bulb at 125ppfd
I could have sworn that there was no data on a CV ballast 4 months ago when I checked and was starting to look at 12K Reeflux bulbs. I guess I could have been thinking of the 250w bulbs because there definitely is no data with a CV ballast on his site with them.
I still feel the numbers are low. Sanjay, I should send you the ballast on the right side of my tank to stick on the peg board with a brand new bulb and see what you get. You may be surprised yourself. I know I was.
The bulbs in my test above are with 6 month old bulbs just for reference. I tried on a new bulb just for kicks and the numbers were scary:eek1:
I could have sworn that there was no data on a CV ballast 4 months ago when I checked and was starting to look at 12K Reeflux bulbs. I guess I could have been thinking of the 250w bulbs because there definitely is no data with a CV ballast on his site with them.
I still feel the numbers are low. Sanjay, I should send you the ballast on the right side of my tank to stick on the peg board with a brand new bulb and see what you get. You may be surprised yourself. I know I was.
The bulbs in my test above are with 6 month old bulbs just for reference. I tried on a new bulb just for kicks and the numbers were scary:eek1:
KurtsReef
Premium Member
Nice having all three in the same thread to look at Bubbletip.
On my tank the two outer bulbs were the 12k's and the center is a 20k Hamilton. Something I did not do was put where (front to back) the readings are and its tough to tell but for instance the 670 reading upper right side over the green BTA is pretty much directly under the bulb...the 590 reading on the right side near the barnicles is toward the back of the tank as we are looking at it.
As for spread, if you dont have braces its actually pretty wide. Was looking at the tank with only the center light on the other evening (I do have braces so there was some blockage) and at the bottom of my 30" tank light was covering about 4' total getting what looks like decent amount of light and would be interesting to test the PAR values with only the one light on.
On my tank the two outer bulbs were the 12k's and the center is a 20k Hamilton. Something I did not do was put where (front to back) the readings are and its tough to tell but for instance the 670 reading upper right side over the green BTA is pretty much directly under the bulb...the 590 reading on the right side near the barnicles is toward the back of the tank as we are looking at it.
As for spread, if you dont have braces its actually pretty wide. Was looking at the tank with only the center light on the other evening (I do have braces so there was some blockage) and at the bottom of my 30" tank light was covering about 4' total getting what looks like decent amount of light and would be interesting to test the PAR values with only the one light on.
bubbletip2
Premium Member
I am glad you pointed out your visual findings of the spread of one bulb in these reflectors.
I was going to wait a bit to explain what you have found but here it is anyway:
[/B][/QUOTE]
As you can see in Jeremy's shot the hard lines of the reflector which due to his braces is showing us the actual spread of the reflector. Notice the distance at the bottom of the "Cone of Light" and you will get your answers as to why the PAR numbers are so high at the bottom of our tanks. This is one of the most important attributes of this reflector. It drives the light down enabling us to grow SPS on our sand bed. Now to take it a step further it is important to understand that Jeremy has a 24" deep tank and I have a 25" deep tank. At 30 inches Kurt, your cone of light will be a lot wider on the bottom, so when you say you have a 4ft spread on the bottom of your tank I am not surprised. This is why the 2 large LumenBrights are measuring so well everywhere in my tank. I feel we are all finding that the spread that the LumenBrights give off is not only bright aesthetic light but is usable light as well. Something I am not finding on the Diamond Light design. The Diamond light reflectors give off aesthetic light only when they are spread to thin. And if you raise them, forget about it. It will be much more difficult to get SPS to thrive on the bottom of a Lumenarc reflected tank, especially 30 inches deep.
I also want to point out in Jeremy's shot if you look at the left side in between the two reflectors you will notice and additional "cone of light" between the original cones of light. This is the crossover light I am referring to in previous posts. The numbers speak for themselves as I am finding PAR values 350-400 in between my two reflectors under an 18" glass brace half way down in the tank. This is where the recommended every two feet comes into play with any of these reflectors. It is just optimal. That crossover light is a crucial area in the tank to grow coral. Not only will you have usable light from two LB's but you will be hitting every shaded area possible on any coral that is placed there. In my tank I am keeping my LPS on the far left and right sides of the aquarium because if I kept them in the middle that crossover light would surely mean their doom. Notice 16 inches from the water and approximately 23-24" down under the surface of the water I am showing 143 in the corner of the tank. I really think this number should be higher because the only way I can get the measuremnet was by sticking my arm all the way in the tank blocking some of the reflector. I really need some type of PVC or acrylic holder made to really do this right. I am sure the numbers will be higher and not to get into it now but there is a bit of an error to be compenasated for on the Apogee as it surely underrates bulbs that contain spikes in the blue spectrum. So none the less these numbers we are showing are lower than they actually should be. The multiplier to be compensated will vary ont he basis of spectral quality of the bulb and without a spectroradiometer I would be unable to give a concrete multiplier that woudl be of any use. To save the expense of a $2-3000 spectroradiometer, I am fine with just knowing the numbers should be a bit higher as the 12K Reeflux certainly have a blue spike.
I think we have all learned a great deal over the past couple months studying these reflectors. I agree Kurt that numbers with one bulb on can be very helpful especially for those building cube tanks with one bulb. I can tell you this finally owning these reflectors makes it quite a bit easier to explain my theories with concrete evidence :thumbsup:
I was going to wait a bit to explain what you have found but here it is anyway:
As you can see in Jeremy's shot the hard lines of the reflector which due to his braces is showing us the actual spread of the reflector. Notice the distance at the bottom of the "Cone of Light" and you will get your answers as to why the PAR numbers are so high at the bottom of our tanks. This is one of the most important attributes of this reflector. It drives the light down enabling us to grow SPS on our sand bed. Now to take it a step further it is important to understand that Jeremy has a 24" deep tank and I have a 25" deep tank. At 30 inches Kurt, your cone of light will be a lot wider on the bottom, so when you say you have a 4ft spread on the bottom of your tank I am not surprised. This is why the 2 large LumenBrights are measuring so well everywhere in my tank. I feel we are all finding that the spread that the LumenBrights give off is not only bright aesthetic light but is usable light as well. Something I am not finding on the Diamond Light design. The Diamond light reflectors give off aesthetic light only when they are spread to thin. And if you raise them, forget about it. It will be much more difficult to get SPS to thrive on the bottom of a Lumenarc reflected tank, especially 30 inches deep.
I also want to point out in Jeremy's shot if you look at the left side in between the two reflectors you will notice and additional "cone of light" between the original cones of light. This is the crossover light I am referring to in previous posts. The numbers speak for themselves as I am finding PAR values 350-400 in between my two reflectors under an 18" glass brace half way down in the tank. This is where the recommended every two feet comes into play with any of these reflectors. It is just optimal. That crossover light is a crucial area in the tank to grow coral. Not only will you have usable light from two LB's but you will be hitting every shaded area possible on any coral that is placed there. In my tank I am keeping my LPS on the far left and right sides of the aquarium because if I kept them in the middle that crossover light would surely mean their doom. Notice 16 inches from the water and approximately 23-24" down under the surface of the water I am showing 143 in the corner of the tank. I really think this number should be higher because the only way I can get the measuremnet was by sticking my arm all the way in the tank blocking some of the reflector. I really need some type of PVC or acrylic holder made to really do this right. I am sure the numbers will be higher and not to get into it now but there is a bit of an error to be compenasated for on the Apogee as it surely underrates bulbs that contain spikes in the blue spectrum. So none the less these numbers we are showing are lower than they actually should be. The multiplier to be compensated will vary ont he basis of spectral quality of the bulb and without a spectroradiometer I would be unable to give a concrete multiplier that woudl be of any use. To save the expense of a $2-3000 spectroradiometer, I am fine with just knowing the numbers should be a bit higher as the 12K Reeflux certainly have a blue spike.
I think we have all learned a great deal over the past couple months studying these reflectors. I agree Kurt that numbers with one bulb on can be very helpful especially for those building cube tanks with one bulb. I can tell you this finally owning these reflectors makes it quite a bit easier to explain my theories with concrete evidence :thumbsup:
Just Jim
Active member
I just got my new LBs from Mike (acropora nut) and am almost ready to install. I'm looking for some ideas and could use some close ups of how they're mounted/hung. I have a drop ceiling with no canopy, so I'm trying to figure out something that's not that ugly. Plus it's a double sided tank, so I can't hide the ballasts well.
JRaquatics
New member
You can mount them by a 2x6 or 1x4. then hang the board with eyescrews. to hang the board you can use the dropceiling hangers with aviation cable or decorative chain.
KurtsReef
Premium Member
You may want to think of a canopy then, take a look at what Chris had on his 120 it looks pretty neat.
Link to Thread
Else your only choice would be to hang them with wire or chain. Mine are mounted to a board that is nailed into the header above the tank.
Link to Thread
Else your only choice would be to hang them with wire or chain. Mine are mounted to a board that is nailed into the header above the tank.
JRaquatics
New member
You can also frame the reflectors into a box and suspend them from the drop ceiling.
KurtsReef
Premium Member
OK, by no means scientific but after the outer lights went out decided to take a shot of the tank for this thread. My wife was in the kitchen to the right with the lights on and refused to turn them off...like you have to see when doing dishes or something...anyway so the ambient light is kind of killing what I was trying to do on that side and show the angle of light...but took an underexposed shot to see where the light was very strong...
Had the kids hold up a measuring tape so that I could say for sure instead of guessing 4 feet and marked the 2', 3', 4' and 4'6" markings on the tape a bit larger so that you can read them. I think from looking at this I need to level the reflectors this one seems to be angled a bit...but bottom of reflectors are 5 and 1/2" above the top of the tank making the bulbs about 14-16 inches above the water. I feel that there would be some pretty decent PAR readings around 1'4" over to 5'6" but the light is very strong from the 2' to 4' 9" area, this photograph is a very dark representation of how it really looks (take a look at the center light it would be blown out white if I had exposed longer but wanted to get the very strong light area so under exposed)
Had the kids hold up a measuring tape so that I could say for sure instead of guessing 4 feet and marked the 2', 3', 4' and 4'6" markings on the tape a bit larger so that you can read them. I think from looking at this I need to level the reflectors this one seems to be angled a bit...but bottom of reflectors are 5 and 1/2" above the top of the tank making the bulbs about 14-16 inches above the water. I feel that there would be some pretty decent PAR readings around 1'4" over to 5'6" but the light is very strong from the 2' to 4' 9" area, this photograph is a very dark representation of how it really looks (take a look at the center light it would be blown out white if I had exposed longer but wanted to get the very strong light area so under exposed)
KurtsReef
Premium Member
OK, got a call and now know that the distance the electricity has to travel in order to start the MH bulbs can put a big strain on the ballasts...which is the reason to cut at least a foot off the cords.
I can cut more than that, so may as well do it...something to do tomorrow morning
I can cut more than that, so may as well do it...something to do tomorrow morning
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