new QT tank question

[foster200]

My 180 broke out with Ich, so i removed all of my fish and placed them into a 30G. This tank was brand new with my old tank water. It is bare bottom with some PVC. My ammonia levels are extremely high! I keep doing WC but the next day they are right back up again. I added some Bacteria supplement (from top fin) hoping they would start the conversion process.. Do you know if there is anything else i can put in there to cycle the tank quicker? Any tips on what else I can do? Thanks

 

[krowleey]

My 180 broke out with Ich, so i removed all of my fish and placed them into a 30G. This tank was brand new with my old tank water. It is bare bottom with some PVC. My ammonia levels are extremely high! I keep doing WC but the next day they are right back up again. I added some Bacteria supplement (from top fin) hoping they would start the conversion process.. Do you know if there is anything else i can put in there to cycle the tank quicker? Any tips on what else I can do? Thanks

80% WC's and use Prime to keep the toxicity of the ammonia at bay. how many fish are in the 30?

 

[glaukos]

+1^

 

[foster200]

2 ocellaris clown -both 2"
1 tomato clown - 1"
yellow tang - 2.5"
PB tang - 5"
PB tng - 1"
sailfin tang - 2"
copperband - 1.5"
lawnmower blenny - 2"
yellowfaced goby - 3"
green mandarin - 2"
blue green chromis - 1.5"
cardinal - 2"
long nosed hawk - 2"

Im sure thats too many fish for a 30 but I dont have another choice. 80% water change?! eesh. Do you know how long it usually takes to get rid of ich? Im currently using coppersafe. Thanks

 

[yzfr6]

I am in the same boat. it takes up to 8 weeks with you DT being fish less. i would not put them back in prior to the 8 weeks to make sure the ich is completely killed off.

 

[foster200]

I hate seeing my tank farrow. I wish there was some miracle cure I could pour in the tank and call it good. They cured Polio.. why cant they cure ich without killing coral! ha

 

[RBU1]

I hate seeing my tank farrow. I wish there was some miracle cure I could pour in the tank and call it good. They cured Polio.. why cant they cure ich without killing coral! ha

LOL

The trick to a good treatment tank is having the bacteria you need established to handle the breakdown process. You can do this by always having a medium you can transfer from your main tank to a treatment tank.

I really do not like using those ammonia binding products. I would give a product by microblift a try. Its called Special Blend. It will add some bacteria to your system. What are you using as a filter? Any type of bio filtration would be best. On my system I have an emperor 400 with the bio wheels along with a w/d filter with bio balls.

You want that biological piece to breakdown ammonia. I also suggest using cupramine as a treatment versus all the others. Just make sure you never use those ammonia binding products with copper or you will have some DEAD fish......

 

[foster200]

uhm. that last sentence worries me. I added a product called Ammo Lock into my tank last night. it takes the toxins out of ammonia.. should I discontinue use?? my fish look alot happier. They were all up by the surface and today they are swimming all over. Does the Copper and ammonia combine some deadly combo or something? what was your experience in this? my only filter is the little blue cartridges ( i dont know the name of them). My lsf owner told me to remove the carbon pellets out of it, which i did. I have no other means of filtration. I am also adding bacteria every WC.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Do you know if there is anything else i can put in there to cycle the tank quicker? Any tips on what else I can do? Thanks

You can scrounge around in the DT for some nitrification bacteria. You run a power filter with polyester floss, when the floss turns dark after a couple of days, you will have some bacteria. This will not be enough except if you have a very light fish population vs all livestock, ie, a very large reef tank with only a few small fish.

At least, you can start a robust cycle in a separate container now. The medium that you so cycle should be enough to process all the ammonia from all fish, if you cycle robustly. If you drip water on the medium, it will take about three weeks to complete a cycle at warm temperature and other ideal conditions.

Do you have three weeks? Change massive amounts of water and/or use Amquel for the next three weeks, if possible. Some say that Amquel would interfere with some copper formulations. If your fish are not dying from ich (infestation is light), do not let them die from ammonia by doing nothing, do WC or use Amquel now.

 

[foster200]

The ich was severe but has decreased greatly. What worries me now is the ammonia level, however, i thought i had that problem figured out until RBU1 said that running ammonia binding products with copper will kill my fish. So, if i dont use ammolock, my fish will die of toxicity levels. If i do they will die of hyper-copperammonia sickness (ha, i just made that up.. could you tell? ). If i do nothing they will die of ich. with work, i really do not have time in the day to do anything over 25 % water change.My RO takes enough time as it is doing 4 gallons at a time.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The ich was severe but has decreased greatly. What worries me now is the ammonia level, however, i thought i had that problem figured out until RBU1 said that running ammonia binding products with copper will kill my fish. So, if i dont use ammolock, my fish will die of toxicity levels. If i do they will die of hyper-copperammonia sickness (ha, i just made that up.. could you tell? ). If i do nothing they will die of ich. with work, i really do not have time in the day to do anything over 25 % water change.My RO takes enough time as it is doing 4 gallons at a time.

If ich is no longer immediately fatal, you should solve the ammonia problem now. Do not let your fish die from ammonia now.

If you cycle now in a separate container robustly by dripping the water over the medium, after three weeks you will be able to start to eradicate ich without concern over ammonia, in general (unless your fish come down with bacterial infection at the same time).

 

[RBU1]

You can not use any sulfur based ammonia products it makes the copper 10 times more deadly. You better off using the bacteria in a bottle. If you ammonia stuff smells like rotten eggs DONT use it.......This is what happens when you use ammonia binding pruducts....

the Cu+2 will be reduced to Cu+. Cu+ is 10 times more toxic than Cu+2

Don't dose any more copper until you know for sure all that ammona binding stuff is out of the system.

 

[aquaph8]

LOL

The trick to a good treatment tank is having the bacteria you need established to handle the breakdown process. You can do this by always having a medium you can transfer from your main tank to a treatment tank.

I really do not like using those ammonia binding products. I would give a product by microblift a try. Its called Special Blend. It will add some bacteria to your system. What are you using as a filter? Any type of bio filtration would be best. On my system I have an emperor 400 with the bio wheels along with a w/d filter with bio balls.

You want that biological piece to breakdown ammonia. I also suggest using cupramine as a treatment versus all the others. Just make sure you never use those ammonia binding products with copper or you will have some DEAD fish......

Just curious why using prime with copper will kill fish. Ive never had this problem.

 

[RBU1]

Just curious why using prime with copper will kill fish. Ive never had this problem.

See above it is from the Seachem site. You can call them if you don't trust what I am saying. I was told by Seachem not to use copper and prime together.

 

[foster200]

So I should get some polyester floss, put it in my refugium and wait for a few days. I can then put this into my filter housing, this will increase the bacteria in the tank and decrease the ammonia. Can i just do that instead of dripping water over it? Why wouldnt this method be better?

The ammo-lock does not smell like rotten eggs and does not contain sulpher. Should i still discontinue treatment of my copper safe?

thanks, my fish and I appreciate it

 

[RBU1]

So I should get some polyester floss, put it in my refugium and wait for a few days. I can then put this into my filter housing, this will increase the bacteria in the tank and decrease the ammonia. Can i just do that instead of dripping water over it? Why wouldnt this method be better?

The ammo-lock does not smell like rotten eggs and does not contain sulpher. Should i still discontinue treatment of my copper safe?

thanks, my fish and I appreciate it

to be safe I would post the question in the chemistry forum. If it were me I would stop adding anything till I talk to API or who ever makes the copper you are using.

For the bacteria piece pick up a bottle of microblift special blend. It states right on the bottle its safe to use with copper treatments.

 

[krowleey]

2 ocellaris clown -both 2"
1 tomato clown - 1"
yellow tang - 2.5"
PB tang - 5"
PB tng - 1"
sailfin tang - 2"
copperband - 1.5"
lawnmower blenny - 2"
yellowfaced goby - 3"
green mandarin - 2"
blue green chromis - 1.5"
cardinal - 2"
long nosed hawk - 2"

Im sure thats too many fish for a 30 but I dont have another choice. 80% water change?! eesh. Do you know how long it usually takes to get rid of ich? Im currently using coppersafe. Thanks

you will not get to zero ammonia in this QT with that bio load. you should buy a couple 20's and reduce the numbers of fish per QT. also you will need to run your DT fallow for 8 weeks, so you're looking at 8 weeks of daily large water changes, and those tangs will not get along cramped like that. I always suggest Hyposalinity over copper treatment, it has many more advantages than copper, and you can use prime, and antibiotics in hypo. The bacteria in a bottle is junk, it will not help you with your situation. I see no other choice but huge water changes at least once a day like clock work, adding more QT, or changing to hyposalinity.

 

[RBU1]

you will not get to zero ammonia in this QT with that bio load. you should buy a couple 20's and reduce the numbers of fish per QT. also you will need to run your DT fallow for 8 weeks, so you're looking at 8 weeks of daily large water changes, and those tangs will not get along cramped like that. I always suggest Hyposalinity over copper treatment, it has many more advantages than copper, and you can use prime, and antibiotics in hypo. The bacteria in a bottle is junk, it will not help you with your situation. I see no other choice but huge water changes at least once a day like clock work, adding more QT, or changing to hyposalinity.

Very interesting....Are you speaking from opinion or expirience? Because I have a 125 treatment tank set up with copper and 0 ammonia, and the tank has been running for 4 months now. OH and I use that bacteria in a bottle you call junk.....
I agree with you on either a larger QT or splitting the fish up but I dont agree with hypo. In order for hypo to be succesful you need to make sure you keep your salinity at 1.008-1.009 and have little to NO flucuation or the ich can survive. Its also a PITA to control water parameters in hypo PH being the worst. I prefer the get the copper to the proper level and let the tank run for 4 weeks monitoring things. So if you are going with the hypo make sure you have PLENtTY of 1.008 water made up and be prepared to buffer the crap out of the water. I have not done a water change on the treatment tank in about 3 weeks.....The key as I stated before is having a sufficient amount of biological filtration. I like W/D filters on QT's with a LARGE amount of bioballs. You are not worried about nitrates in a Qt so the more bio-balls the better............

 

[krowleey]

Very interesting....Are you speaking from opinion or expirience? Because I have a 125 treatment tank set up with copper and 0 ammonia, and the tank has been running for 4 months now. OH and I use that bacteria in a bottle you call junk.....
I agree with you on either a larger QT or splitting the fish up but I dont agree with hypo. In order for hypo to be succesful you need to make sure you keep your salinity at 1.008-1.009 and have little to NO flucuation or the ich can survive. Its also a PITA to control water parameters in hypo PH being the worst. I prefer the get the copper to the proper level and let the tank run for 4 weeks monitoring things. So if you are going with the hypo make sure you have PLENtTY of 1.008 water made up and be prepared to buffer the crap out of the water. I have not done a water change on the treatment tank in about 3 weeks.....The key as I stated before is having a sufficient amount of biological filtration. I like W/D filters on QT's with a LARGE amount of bioballs. You are not worried about nitrates in a Qt so the more bio-balls the better............

he has 14 fish in a 30, with several tangs. he will not cycle this tank with that many fish in it during QT. he needs to keep the ammonia non toxic. yes hyposalinity is more work for the hobbyist but much less stressful on the fish. I do speak from experience on that, and it is well known and documented. copper is stressful, and with that many fish in a small tank spells disaster. and i can not agree with the bacteria in a bottle gimmick, while it may help get the cycle going, it is not going to cure this ammonia problem, this reefer needs a band aid since he had an emergency QT and that is a binder.

 

[wooden_reefer]

So I should get some polyester floss, put it in my refugium and wait for a few days. I can then put this into my filter housing, this will increase the bacteria in the tank and decrease the ammonia. Can i just do that instead of dripping water over it? Why wouldnt this method be better?

Basically, scrounging around in DT for nitrification bacteria is desperate resourcefulness. It is robbing the DT for the QT. Sometimes it helps significantly, but this way will always be marginal. In the DT long after the cycle, the wastes generated by the livestock is at equilbrium with the microbes that process the wastes. You cannot create nitrification bacteria by collecting in DT. If you sucessfully remove some in DT, you can only hope that there is still enough for both QT and DT.

Cycling in a separate container using ammonia source and bacteria seed is VERY VERY VERY easy. You should not hesitate to do so. This is an essential part of the skills of an aquarist.

If you don't know how to DIY drip water onto medium, you can cycle in the usual way by submerging the medium. Just that submerged way takes one to two weeks extra. When you drip water onto a medium, there is very much water-air interface and aerobic bacteria grow faster under such a setup, so-called wet-dry.