New reef tank, losing clowns

[Tarpals]

In regards to the LFS "“ they have been a marine dealer for over 10 years now with a great reputation in our area. The live rock I have placed in the tank is cured and I have had no die off on the rocks. The tank ran for over a month with fresh water (65 imperial gallons in glass and 5more in the wet/dry sump) for a total of about 84 U.S. gallons.

- I am running a protein skimmer with a 200g capacity and an external pump (forget the turnover "“ but I know that if I open the return all the way it drains my sump in about 30 seconds "“ despite a 1.25" overflow)

- In summary I would say "“ 1 month freshwater "“ 1 month salt & rock "“ Moving into 1 month with fish.

Up until now the only thing that is dieing off are the juvenile tank bread P-Clowns, everyone else appears to be happy.. Even the Green Carpet"¦

- The LFS opinion is that when it comes to P-Clowns -One is ok "“ two are ok "“ 5+ are OK (depending upon water volume) "“ in this type of community two fish will adopt dominate roles and the rest will find safety in numbers "“ I had Malawi Cichlids for over 15 years and lived by this diffused aggression model for years.

Personally I have not observed any signs of aggression from any of these fish although that does sound like the best guess yet at what is happening -

 

[Arati]

This lfs may have exellent livestock and be around forever. they are still a buisness and will sell you what you will buy. they have already proven that by selling you a carpet anenome and a dragonett. If you dont understand that then its your wallet that will pay until you do.

the month of freshwater doesnt mean anything 1 month running with pre cured rock is a bare minimum even then not really for a new hobbiest.

any nitrite at all means the system is still cycleing. Also all new tanks go through a bunch of swings. test your nitrate and when that is zero you cycle is over.

it is in the best interest of your wallet to listen to the people here and read up for yourself before making any purcases. and I agree with Chris (as usual) you should consider returnin g that stuff for store credit and doing some research / reading.

 

[lyndaj]

It may just be that I am being my usual emotional Cancerian, but folks there is no need for sarcasm here. We posted here, because we are having problems. We have had lots of years with freshwater tanks (which I realize are totally different); however, we were going on the advice of our local seller (who has never steered us wrong before), and yes, they are a business, and yes, I realize that.

Thanks,

Lynda

 

[Toddrtrex]

Thing is, I would be wary of any LFS that recommended putting a "carpet" anemone (( be it a Haddoni or a Gig, but I am thinking it is a Haddoni )) into such a newly set up tank. And then to suggest that 5 clowns would be a good idea.

IMO, the root of the issues is going to fast --- yes I said fast --- and stocking the tank with poorly matched livestock. A scooter dragonet in a new tank isn't a good choice, and then to suggest having one in a tank with a Haddoni carpet..... lets just say I expect the dragonet to be eaten within a month by the Haddoni.

People aren't trying to be sarcastic, just trying to point out the the info that you were given by that LFS is very questionable, and in some cases I would say very poor.

 

[lyndaj]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15669377#post15669377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
Thing is, I would be wary of any LFS that recommended putting a "carpet" anemone (( be it a Haddoni or a Gig, but I am thinking it is a Haddoni )) into such a newly set up tank. And then to suggest that 5 clowns would be a good idea.

IMO, the root of the issues is going to fast --- yes I said fast --- and stocking the tank with poorly matched livestock. A scooter dragonet in a new tank isn't a good choice, and then to suggest having one in a tank with a Haddoni carpet..... lets just say I expect the dragonet to be eaten within a month by the Haddoni.

People aren't trying to be sarcastic, just trying to point out the the info that you were given by that LFS is very questionable, and in some cases I would say very poor.

Thank you. That's all I wanted...an honest answer without any sarcasm. Thanks.

Now I am totally perplexed about what to do as I don't want my scooter being lunch for the anemone.

Is it possible to turn my 12 gal Nano Cube into a "small" reef (read no anemone and clowns) so I can move my scooter over there, or is that just too small. If I could move him over there, what other fish would work with him.

Thank you again,

Lynda

 

[Arati]

I am sorry if I come off poorly it just part of being from nyc. please understand I have no other motive but to be helpful, but I/ we see this sort of post alot and so the responses could be better.
the thing is this is one expensive hobby I just hate to see people get started like this. It happened to me and so many people here.

The truth is you should return the scooter blenny, but an alternative is to use a turkey baster a target feed him everyday with mysis or spirulina brine. even then its a crap shoot. For the sake of balance in your tank you want the sand and rocks to build up a healthy population of pods. pods eat dirt and you want that a dragonett can make it verry hard for you sandbed to be healthy. also on the no no list are sand sifting starfish and sand sifting gobys. at least until you establish the tank and a decent refugium.

Anenomes are awsome, but S.Haddoni green carpet is a notorius fish eater and requires high lighting and flow . Anenomes are a bag of dirt especialy a carpet. they can make thier corner or spot of the tank verry dirty. Newer tanks dont have the ability to filter such high bioloads. Also Haddoni gets huge.

I know it sucks but bringing them back and then going slowly next time with a bit of research you will be much better off in the long and short term and have a better chance at enjoying this hobby properly instead of starting off with problems.

I am wondering if you are using RO/DI water?

Good Luck
Chris

 

[lyndaj]

Chris,

No problem.

Yes, we are using RO water, but we only started this recently.

Was wondering if the better solution would be to return the anemone? We seem to be back down to two clowns, so hopefully we can keep the two of them alive. They are the bigger of the juveniles that we brought into the tank, so I'm guessing the whole adage of survival of the fittest might have played into this.

I really want to keep my scooter.

Going forward, what kind of time frame are we looking at in terms of waiting to add new fish to this tank?

Many thanks for your help.

PS: My other hobby...acoustic guitars is an expensive hobby too!

 

[Arati]

well scooters and mandarin are verry close you could try something like this. I used PE mysis when I did it and that worked.

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

I would return the carpet besides you arent ready for it. they are only cool until they eat your favorite fish, or chomp down a 100$ fish


you sould plan out what fish you want and then add them in the order of least territorial to most territorial.

I think you guys got hit all at once. alot of fish are just fine early on. Its a good idea to start with a bubble tip anenome E.quadricolor they are the easiest to care for, and come in colors for a fairly cheap price.

are you guys planning a reef tank? the reason I ask is you basically need to keep the water quality at reef quality for anenomes.

btw. I grew up raising cichlids, Frontoza was the $ fish back then.

what kind of lighting do you have?

 

[Toddrtrex]

I agree with "Arati" about the scooter, the odds are against it making it in a 12 gallon tank, and are only a bit better about it making it in a newly set up tank --- because of their diet.

I do have to disagree about the flow requirements for Haddonis, it has been my experiences that they aren't found of a lot of flow, and that will cause them to move/be unhappy. Gigs on the other hand love flow.

 

[patriots81]

i would say that you should not keep the carpet. btas are good but you should wait a while until your tank fully establishes, at least 6 months.

 

[lyndaj]

The husband is going to the dealer this morning. I believe the plan is to take back the anemone. I guess I know where the never to be found remains of my clown fish went Lesson learned.

Is it possible to feed the scooter per the above reply in order to keep him or should we return him too?

I am known as the internet queen, but I also like books too. Can someone direct me towards some good books. I see the link to Amazon for the clown book, but can you guys suggest others.

I will admit to feeling REALLY stupid right now having just trusted our dealer. I usually research stuff to death before I go ahead.

Many thanks,

Lynda

 

[MarineFlake]

No need to feel stupid, no one here got into this with out making mistakes, with or with out the help of their lfs ; ) personally, I don't see problem with the stock you want to keep, in that sense, I don't see that the lfs steered you wrong. However, what seems to be missing here is a good cycle and some proper test kits. My advice after reading all your posts at this point is to keep your fish and consider returning th nem. The fish, *if* they are now helping the tank fully cycle are doomed to success or failure at this point regardless. You can't undo gill damage, so stay the course, IMO. Your saving grace lies in using cured rock, otherwise, just as in fresh water tanks, the inevitable spike in ammonia/no2 would finish off the weak. I'm not as conservative as others when it comes to adding nems, add them when the tank is ready. If that's right away or 4 yrs from now, does not matter if you know what your doing. My advice for returning the nem you have is based on the fish you want to keep. Bta's are a great nem with low to high light and flow reqs depending on other factors. At any rate, given the rough start, maybe hold off on any further acquisitions until you get your hands (and head around your current crew of dependants. GL !!

 

[bues0022]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15673124#post15673124 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarineFlake
. I'm not as conservative as others when it comes to adding nems, add them when the tank is ready. If that's right away or 4 yrs from now, does not matter if you know what your doing.

I think the biggest problem for most newbies is knowing WHEN the tank is ready. As a general rule of thumb, they don't know what they're doing. An experienced hobbiest will be able to tell when the tank is ready and then put a nem in. I think the general idea of waiting at least 6 months, or even a year is to be on the conservative side for newbies without nem experience.

To the OP, I'd agree with what others have said, but I'd take both the nem and the goby back. Yeah, you might get away with keeping them alive, but chances are low for either. Patience is the hardest thing to learn in this hobby.

 

[lyndaj]

As an update, the anemone is going back to the dealer on Saturday and it looks like, based on the prediction earlier in this thread, that my scooter has become anemone food. Crap!

 

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15676157#post15676157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lyndaj
As an update, the anemone is going back to the dealer on Saturday and it looks like, based on the prediction earlier in this thread, that my scooter has become anemone food. Crap!

Wise choice, but sorry that the scooter was eaten. I have had good luck with Haddonis and fish --- only 2 eaten in 10 years. But, the two there were eaten were a Yellow Watchman Goby and a Mandarin --- similar to your fish. I wouldn't keep any fish like those with a Haddoni.

 

[mattypw]

+1 on that. Its usually not a great idea to add that many fish at once, especially to a tank that young. They will cause a massive chemical imbalance, since your system isn't used to handling that many fish. I would hold off on adding any fish for a while (especially because you are already at maximum capacity). Good luck with it though, it'll all work out after a while

 

[mattypw]

+1 on that. Its usually not a great idea to add that many fish at once, especially to a tank that young. They will cause a massive chemical imbalance, since your system isn't used to handling that many fish. I would hold off on adding any fish for a while (especially because you are already at maximum capacity). Good luck with it though, it'll all work out after a while